Progressive plasticsYouTube↗  IA↗(long shot)
Education  951 views 29 likes 0 dislikes   13 Nov 2019
Royal Society of Chemistry 130K subscribers United Kingdom YouTube↗


Please select the problem
You must specify your email and describe the problem in detail
Describe your problem in detail if it's not obvious

Click to Play Video Click to Play Video
英国皇家化学学会
- Hello, konnichiwa, ni hao and guten tag.
- Hello, konnichiwa 你好 guten tag
Welcome to Burlington House here in London.
欢迎来到伦敦的伯灵顿大厦
And we're here with a special panel on progressive plastics
我们在这里有一个关于渐进塑料的特别小组
to mark the end of three days of scientists
劳拉·福斯特 英国广播公司环境记者 标志着来自德国 中国 日本和英国等国家的
from countries including Germany and China
科学家们在这里结束了
and Japan and the U.K. all being here together
为期三天的会议
trying to share ideas, share their knowledge
他们试图共同分享想法
about the best way to tackle the problem
分享他们关于解决塑料污染问题的
of plastic pollution.
最佳方法的知识
Plastic pollution is something that
实际上 塑料污染
hasn't actually really been a phrase for very long.
并没有很长时间
For years, decades in fact, people lived quite happily
多年来 事实上是数十年来 人们一直
with this versatile useful waterproof substance.
用这种多功能有用的防水物质过着幸福的生活
But, things have changed in the last few years.
但是 最近几年情况发生了变化
We've all become a lot more aware
我们都变得更加了解
of the problems that plastic can cause
塑料进入环境时
when it gets out into the environment.
可能引起的问题
No thanks to Sir David Attenborough
并非由于大卫·阿滕伯勒爵士
who's really drawn attention to the problem
通过他的节目 蓝色星球II
through his show "Blue Planet II."
吸引人们对这个问题的关注
The number of Google searches, for instance,
例如 谷歌搜索 塑料污染 和 抗击塑料污染
for phrases like "plastic pollution"
等短语的次数
and "beat plastic pollution" weren't really used before,
以前并没有真正使用过
but now they're being described as breakout phrases.
但现在被描述为突破性短语
And actually the increase in the number of times
实际上 使用它们的次数
they're being used is too high to quantify.
增加得太多 无法量化
So we've seen the problems that plastic can cause
因此 我们已经看到了塑料可能引起的问题
and more and more people therefore want solutions.
因此越来越多的人需要解决方案
Is chemistry going to provide us with the answers?
化学会为我们提供答案吗
Before I introduce you to the people on my right,
在向您介绍我右边的人之前
I just want to say that if at any point
我只想说一点
you want to join in with this discussion
您想参加这次讨论
we would love to hear what you think.
我们很想听听您的想法
Elisabeth Ratcliffe from the Royal Society of Chemistry
英国皇家化学学会的伊丽莎白·拉特克利夫
is on my left and she'll be processing
在我的左边 她会处理
all your comments that you make in the live chat
您在实时聊天和Facebook页面上
and on the Facebook page.
发表的所有评论
And also, feel free to tweet us @RoySocChem
另外 请随时向RoySocChem发送推文
and hashtags are #ProgressivePlastics
主题标签是
and #RSCSustainability.
渐进塑料和RSC的可持续性
So, in no particular order, we'll go from the far right.
因此 没有特别的顺序 我们将从最右边开始
We're joined by Professor Xianhong Wang
长春应用化学研究所的
from the Changchun Institute of Applied Chemistry.
王献红教授也加入了我们的行列
Then, Professor Charlotte Williams
然后 夏洛特·威廉姆斯教授
from the University of Oxford.
来自牛津大学
Professor Andreas Greiner from the University of Bayreuth
拜罗伊特大学安德里亚斯·格瑞纳教授
and Professor Toshiaki Yoshioka
和东北大学 的
from Tohoku University.
吉冈俊明教授
I hope I said all those right.
我希望我说的没错
Thank you all very much for joining us today.
非常感谢大家 今天加入我们
Can I just say, it's really great news
我可以说 这真是一个好消息
that after three days of being locked in a room
呆在在一个房间中花三天时间
trying to solve one of the biggest problems
试图解决环境中最大的
in the environment you're all still smiling
一个问题之后 你们所有人
and chatting to each other.
仍然在微笑并聊天
That's really good to hear.
听到你这样说真的很高兴
First off, just a quick question is
首先 一个简单的问题是
how do we look at the impact that plastic has
我们如何看待塑料
both negative and positive?
既有正面影响又有正面影响
Xianhong can we start with you?
献红 我们可以从您开始吗
What do we look at?
我们看什么
- Yeah, as a polymer scientist
- 是的 作为高分子科学家
I really believe plastics should be positive
我真的相信塑料有积极的影响
and should have positive impacts in human beings
并且应该对人类和
and in the world.
王献红教授 长春应用化学研究所
- [Laura] And how do you quantify the positive
整个世界产生积极的影响
and how do you line it up with the negative
- [劳拉] 您如何量化积极因素 如何将其与消极因素
that can come from them?
联系起来
- Yeah, the point is there's still no countries
- 是的 关键是世界上仍然
in the world.
没有任何那样的国家
We use almost 300 million ton of plastics.
我们使用近3亿吨塑料
So, it gives us a lot of our economies
因此 它促进了我们的经济发展
and also we can find many many applications
而且我们也可以找到塑料的很多应用
from plastics, so it should be positive.
因此应该是积极的
But, you know, sometimes we really find this a concern
但是 你知道 有时候我们
from plastics.
真的从塑料中发现了这个问题
So, we should face the concerns
因此 我们应该面对这些问题
and solve based on our knowledge of chemistry, yeah.
并根据我们的化学知识进行解决
- Charlotte, when you look at the impact of plastic
- 夏洛特 当你看塑料的影响时
what sort of things are you looking at?
你看到了什么呢
- Well, to start with, following on
- 首先 根据王教授的陈述
from Professor Wang's statements, it's really important
考虑塑料在我们日常生活中的
to consider that plastics are applied
广泛应用
in a really broad range of our everyday lives.
是非常重要的
So of course, we know the very visible plastic packaging,
因此 我们当然知道非常明显的塑料包装
but polymers also perform key roles
夏洛特·威廉姆斯教授 牛津大学 但是聚合物在诸如建筑等部门
in sectors like construction where they make sure
也起着关键作用
that our homes are properly insulated
它们可以确保房屋得到适当的隔热
and that we can use a range of materials.
并可以使用多种材料
They're very important in electronics.
它们在电子领域非常重要
They're essential to light-weight in transport.
它们对于轻型运输至关重要
Nearly 50% of a car or an airplane
汽车或飞机近50％的成分
would be polymeric components.
将会是聚合物
And so, they bring so many benefits
因此 它们带来了很多好处
in terms of sustainability to our lives
在我们生活的可持续性方面
that we must not forget this.
我们一定不能忘记这一点
But, there are very real concerns
但是 一旦使用完毕
with what happens once we've finished using them.
人们会非常担心将发生的事情
And we need to improve upon this,
我们需要对此进行改进
so that we overcome that negative impact that they can have.
这样我们就克服了可能产生的负面影响
- Andreas, to what extent do you think
- 安德里亚斯 在多大程度上
it's chemistry's job to solve this problem
你认为解决这个问题是化学家的工作
rather than society's problem?
而不是解决社会问题
- I would like to extend this a little bit
- 我想说一点
by saying we have an impact of plastic
我们受塑料的影响
and we have an impact of plastic handling.
也受到塑料处理的影响
This we should keep apart.
我们应该分开
And chemistry can help here, of course,
安德里亚斯·格瑞纳教授 拜罗伊特大学 当然 化学可以通过制造非常适合
by making plastics which are very suitable
其特定用途的塑料来帮助
for the particular application they are meant for.
实现这一目标
They even enable certain applications only.
它们甚至仅启用某些应用程序
This with appropriate chemistry.
这与适当的化学作用有关
But, it always starts in its production,
但是 它总是从生产开始
that it's more sustainable, less CO2 footprint
就更具可持续性 减少二氧化碳足迹等
and so on, what we all want to have of course.
我们当然都希望拥有
- We're gonna unpick that
- 稍后我们要
a little bit more later on. - Alright.
分开说 - 好的
- But, Yoshioka, first I want to talk to you
- 但是 吉冈 首先我想和你谈谈
about degradability.
关于可降解性
A lot of people when they think, 'cause plastic pollution's
当很多人发自内心地认为 造成塑料污染
such a visceral thing, people can see the plastic.
他们就可以看到塑料的影响
They see the problem.
他们就看到了问题
But, there's still a lot of confusion
但是 仍然有很多困惑
about how plastic degrades.
关于塑料如何降解
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
您能告诉我们一些吗
- Yeah, concerning the issue
- 是的 关于要了解
to understand the environmental impact with plastics
塑料对环境的影响的问题
it's not good.
不是很好
And how about even now your lifestyle
甚至现在 如果没有塑料
is lost without plastics.
您的生活方式就会改变
There are so many plastics produced around us
我们周围有很多塑料
to help our lives.
吉冈俊明教授 东北大学 帮助我们的生活
And then, if they have plastics not degradable,
然后 如果塑料是不可降解的
in that case then the plastic has a lot of impact
那么 它们会对环境
in the environment.
产生很大影响
But, plastics have a good advantage.
但是 塑料有很好的优势
For example, if you go shopping
例如 如果您去购物
and buy milk or juice with glass bottles
用玻璃瓶或塑料瓶买牛奶或果汁
or plastic bottles, obviously
显然 在一次购物中
the plastic bottles can carry more drinks
塑料瓶可以携带更多的饮料
in one shopping we use less energy.
因此消耗的能量更少
And in the plastic the degradable is important,
在塑料中 可降解物质很重要
but plastic not degradable very important for our lives.
但是塑料不可降解对我们的生活非常重要
- And Andreas, can I ask you a little bit about
- 还有 安德里亚斯 我可以问你一下吗
is there a way we can break down plastic and polymers
有没有办法在不损害环境的情况下
without hurting the environment?
分解塑料和聚合物
- Well, all we do, human beings as we are
- 好吧 我们所做的一切 作为人类
if we make something, we somehow of course
如果我们做出某些事情
have an influence on the environment,
我们必定会对环境产生影响
though we may never know the influence.
虽然我们可能永远都不知道影响力
And with the degradation of polymers of course
当然 随着聚合物的降解
we also have an impact on the environment.
我们也会对环境产生影响
Just to give you an example, if we degrade
仅举一个例子
one of the standard degradable polymers
如果我们降解一种标准可降解聚合物
which are meant for degradation
而这种聚合物可降解
we change, for example, the pH.
我们会改变其pH值
The question is how much is this?
问题是多大呢
So, there will be some damage for the nearer environment,
因此 对较近的环境会有一些损害
but maybe not for the wider environment.
但对较大的环境可能不会造成损害
What is most important is that
最重要的是
during the degradation process no toxic components
在降解过程中
are developed.
没有产生有毒成分
Very often, of course, if the development of,
当然 如果在当今可降解聚合物的
for example, carbon dioxide in the degradation
降解过程中产生例如二氧化碳
of nowadays degradable polymers.
那当然是非常常见的
So, one has to make then a trade-off,
因此 必须权衡取舍
is it worthwhile to do that or not?
是否值得这样做
- Yes, I actually had a question through earlier from Wei
- 是啊 实际上在早些时候魏有一个问题
who says, when you are sort of changing the degradability
他说 当您要改变降解性时
are you making a compromise on all those attributes
您是否在使塑料有用的
of plastic that makes it useful?
所有这些属性上做出折衷
Xianhong, what do you say to that?
献红 你怎么认为
- Yeah, actually we need some trade-off
- 是的 实际上我们需要
between degradability and performance.
在可降解性和性能之间进行权衡
But anyway, a compromise based on our chemistry
但无论如何 基于我们的化学
and also our physics, we call polymer blending,
以及我们的物理学的折衷
something like that.
我们称之为聚合物共混 诸如此类
We can make such a balance for degradability
我们可以为
and performance.
可降解性和性能带来好处
- I just wanna pick up on what you said,
我想听听你说的
that there is a compromise on the performance.
在性能上有一个折衷
What sort of things will be less efficient
如果我们使塑料具有更高的生物降解性
with plastic if we make it more biodegradable?
那么哪种东西对塑料的效率将更低
- Yeah, actually the first thing we should satisfy
- 是的 实际上我们应该满足的第一件事
is the function for certain applications.
是某些应用程序的功能
Then, we may find a way to adjust the degradability
然后 我们可能会找到一种方法调整可降解性
and we can control the length of the time,
而且我们可以控制时间的长短
how long it will degrade, yeah.
它会降解多长时间 是的
- And Andreas, are these methods there yet?
- 安德里亚斯 还有这些方法吗
Can chemists do this at the moment?
化学家目前可以这样做吗
- I think we basically have the tools,
- 我认为我们基本上有工具
but we have to put the tools together
但是我们必须将这些工具
to do that better.
放在一起才能做得更好
And I would like to emphasize this is trade-off situation.
我想强调一下这是一个权衡的情况
I'll give you an example, if we have to increase
我举一个例子 如果我们必须
the crop production, which we have to do,
增加农作物的产量
we have only a limited amount of square meters
我们在这个地球上只有有限的面积
on this planet earth, we have to increase
我们必须增加
the crop production, particularly in the future.
作物的产量 特别是在未来
We might have to use the degradable plastic
我们可能必须使用可降解的塑料来增加它
in order to increase this, then we have a CO2
那么在这种降解过程中我们
maybe development during this degradation,
可能会产生二氧化碳
but we may be able to increase the crop production
但是我们也许可以增加农作物的产量
which is of utmost important for the future
这对于我们的子孙后代的未来
of our children and grandchildren.
至关重要
And this, you also mean by the trade-off.
而且 这也意味着权衡
- Charlotte, some people might say that if you make
- 夏洛特 有人可能会说
plastic more degradable it's not really gonna teach
如果您使塑料更具降解性
the world about being sustainable.
那真的不会教会世界可持续性
They'll be like, well, if I chuck this away
他们会像 嗯 如果我把它扔掉
it'll disappear, no harm done.
它会消失 没有伤害
To what extent is that possibility going to happen?
那在多大程度上才可能发生呢
- We've discussed this at length
- 在过去三天的会议中
over the last three days at our meeting.
我们进行了详尽的讨论
And we are very clear that although we can propose
而且我们很清楚虽然我们可以提出
technical solutions that allow plastics
技术解决方案使塑料
to be broken more easily back to their small molecules.
更容易分解成小分子
We are not proposing the indiscriminate disposal
我们不建议在环境中
of plastics in the environment.
随意处置塑料
This is not our solution to the problem.
这不是我们解决问题的方法
We need to use technical innovation
我们需要运用技术创新
to redesign these high performance products.
重新设计这些高性能产品
And I'm very confident that our field can do this,
我非常相信在我们的领域可以做到这一点
but to the behaviour of people
但是对于人们的行为
we need also to tackle that as a society.
我们还需要解决这个社会问题
We are not advocating a throwaway culture
我们不提倡一次性文化和浪费
and the waste of this precious material
这种珍贵的材料 无论这种材料
however it is made and whatever it may degrade to.
是人造的还是可能降解的
Even if those degradation products are nontoxic
即使这些降解产物是无毒的
we still say this is precious material.
我们仍然说这是珍贵的材料
We need to recycle it and reuse it
我们需要回收再利用
and not have it out there in the environment.
而不是将其放置在环境中
- I'm glad you mentioned recycling
- 很高兴您提到回收
because that's another aspect that
因为这是你们最近几天一直在
you've all been looking at over the last few days.
关注的另一个方面
Yoshioka, what problems are there
吉冈 目前回收塑料和聚合物
with recycling plastic and polymers at the moment?
有什么问题吗
- Yeah, and that reason is both technical issues
- 是的 那个原因
and economic issues.
既是技术问题 又是经济问题
And there two issues there's a big problem
是的 有两个问题是
for the plastic issues, yeah.
塑料方面的大问题
- So, it's to do with how much it costs,
因此 它与成本多少有关
but also presumably the way it's done.
也可能与完成方式有关
What problems can be caused,
会导致什么问题
Leonie's actually messaged to say that,
莱昂妮实际上是说
can recycling plastic be done
不用消耗大量能量
without using a lot of energy?
就能完成塑料回收吗
- Yeah, for example, if the consumer
- 是的 例如 当下一个消费者与我们的
collaborates rather than throwing away plastics,
湿法追踪排污管道结合使用塑料时
and the energy used for recycling can be reduced.
可以减少用于回收的能量
And then the eco-based industry or technology
这样 基于生态的行业或技术
can be used well, it's possible
就可以很好地利用
to cover the energy consumptions
可以用制造过程中的能量来
for recycling with energy of the manufacturing processes.
覆盖回收的能耗
- And what changes can be made to plastics
- 您会说 可以对塑料进行哪些更改
to make them more recyclable would you say?
以使其更具可回收性呢
- Yeah, (laughing)
- 是的
it's a good question. (laughing)
这是一个好问题
Honestly yes, honestly yes, it's possible
老实说是的 老实说是的 有可能
to do changing with plastics.
用塑料做出改变
- How would that change?
- 那会如何变化
What does that change look like?
这种变化是什么样的
- Yeah.
- 是的
What that question's meaning with plastics?
这个问题与塑料有什么关系
- Yeah, how can you change a plastic?
- 是的 如何更换塑料
- Yeah, cost studying in our life
- 是的 研究其用于生活中的费用
and maybe it's difficult, difficult.
也许很难 很难
But, we have to tackle it, plastics,
但是 我们必须解决它 塑料
and good solutions.
依靠好的解决方案
And some plastics can change as materials,
而某些塑料可能会随着材料的变化而变化
but most plastics are difficult to change as materials.
但是大多数塑料都很难作为材料而改变
For example, considering electrical appliances
例如 当前的研究使用电器和汽车
and automobiles, they have a lot of plastics
它们使用大量的塑料
to reduce their energy consumption.
来降低能耗
If the automobiles
如果汽车换成旧金属
changing to the old metals,
那么二氧化碳的排放量
in that case the carbon dioxide emission is a lot more.
会更多
For example, packaging plastics, is maybe, I hope,
我希望 例如 作为一种对环境有害的
a little bit changing as a plastics
塑料材料
for environmentally friendly materials.
我希望包装塑料会稍作改变
- Charlotte, you wanted to say something.
- 夏洛特 你想说点什么
- We discussed in some detail
- 我们详细讨论了
some of the challenges with recycling.
回收方面的一些挑战
And in future it's clear that we need to
很明显 将来我们需要
have efficient separations of plastics.
可以有效分离塑料
Technically, it's really important to realise
从技术上讲 重要的是要认识到
that polymer can be recycled
可以在合理的温度范围内
within a reasonable temperature range.
回收聚合物
And I say this because many times you see
我这么说是因为很多次你看到
that people wish to replace plastics
人们希望用金属或玻璃等
with materials that might be even more energy cost
回收成本更高的材料
to recycle like metals or glass.
来代替塑料
So, to recycle those materials requires
因此 与那些聚合物相比
a very significantly greater energy input
回收这些材料所需的
than it does for polymers.
能量输入非常多
And some of the challenges for recycling of polymers
聚合物回收所面临的一些挑战
involve that they are not a single thing.
涉及到的是它们不是单一的东西
They are a mixture of different chemistries.
它们是不同化学物质的混合物
And so if we can improve that separation
因此 如果我们可以改善这些
of those chemistries we can then develop the technology
化学物质的分离 那么我们可以
to allow for this recycling.
开发技术以实现这种回收利用
- Xianhong, you're nodding along to everything
- 献红 你在点头
Charlotte said there. - Yeah.
夏洛特在那边说 -是的
As you know, there are two ways
如您所知 有两种方法
to deal with plastic impact on environment.
可以处理塑料对环境的影响
One is recycle the plastics.
一种是回收塑料
The other one is degradation.
另一种是降解
So, in some way, in some areas
所以 某种程度上来说 在某些地区
recycling cannot be done very well.
回收工作做得并不好
I mean, energy and cost issue.
我的意思是能源和成本问题
So, like in China, you know, we have huge land
因此 就像在中国一样 我们拥有辽阔的土地
for machine fuel, for agriculture machine fuel.
使用机械燃料 农业机械燃料
So it's nearly impossible to recycle
因此 超过6％或7％废物
more than sixty percent or seventy percent.
几乎不可能回收
So, we need biodegradation.
因此 我们需要生物降解
So, this means a chance of plastic
因此 这意味着塑料有可能从
from a traditional non-degradable plastic
传统的不可降解塑料变为可生物降解塑料
to biodegradable or in this morning
或者在今天早上
what it costs for environmentally degradable plastics, yeah
是的 环保型塑料的价格是多少
- So, it's not a case of either or.
- 因此 这不是一个或这样或那样的情况
It's both together. - [Xianhong] Yeah, yeah.
两者都在一起 -[贤宏]是的
- So, how much of it is one, improving degradability
- 那么 其中有多少是改善可降解性
versus improving recycling?
而不是提高回收利用
Andreas, what do you think?
安德里亚斯 你怎么看
- It depends on the application very clearly.
- 很明显取决于应用
Like in agricultural fields you want to have of course
像在农业领域 您当然希望
degradation more.
更多的降解
It's next to impossible if you have a huge field
在中国如果您在多个领域进行回收
in China to recollect that.
几乎是不可能的
Everything is simply not efficient to do that.
一切都不能高效地做到这一点
But, if you have a material, for example,
但是 例如 如果您有材料
like a coffee beaker we get here in a coffee shop in London,
就像在伦敦的一家咖啡店里的咖啡烧杯
this could be nice to recycle and you see a trash can there.
这可能很好回收 而您看到那里有一个垃圾桶
And here I would like to make a point,
在这里我想指出一点
in some countries we have already good recycling systems,
在某些国家 我们已经有很好的回收系统
they can always be improved.
它们可以随时得到改善
But, I often see other countries where
但是 我经常看到其他国家
not any even garbage management systems are there,
甚至那里没有垃圾管理系统
not talking about recycling.
没有人谈论回收
And here clearly, maybe also education is missing
在那里 也许也缺少教育
to have the awareness to do that.
这样做的意识
Everybody can do his own chemistry
每个人都可以通过简单地收集塑料
or her own chemistry by simply collecting the plastic
而不是将其扔到环境中
instead of throwing that in the environment.
进行自己的化学反应
And I think all these things have to come together
我认为所有这些东西都必须结合起来
education, garbage management system,
教育 垃圾管理系统 聚合物
polymers which are, by the way, not simple materials,
而不是简单的材料
they are complex materials.
它们是复杂的材料
They are like a Lego system which have to be put together
他们就像一个乐高系统必须放在一起
either to be clearly degradable, to be clearly recyclable
要么明显可降解 要么明显可回收
that is life-long, that they take them to be reused again.
那是终生的 可以重新使用
Many plastics could also get kind of degraded
许多塑料也可能通过回收过程而降解
through the recycling process and then they are
而在回收后
maybe even useless after recycling them,
甚至可能毫无用处
only burning remains and this can not be a solution.
仅燃烧残留物 这不是解决方案
- Yes, tell us a little bit more about burning.
- 是的 告诉我们一点关于燃烧的更多信息
- That's an interesting issue
- 这是一个有趣的问题
because a plastic is also a container for energy.
因为塑料还是能量的容器
And we always have to make a trade-off,
而且我们总是必须权衡取舍
is the burning of a plastic a better solution
燃烧塑料是更好的解决方案
or is recycling?
还是在回收塑料呢
Because recycling also takes energy
因为回收也需要能量
and it's usually connected to a loss in quality.
而且通常与质量下降有关
For example, if I want to use that now for a windshield
例如 如果我现在想将其用于
for a high speed train maybe I would not want to use
高速火车的挡风玻璃
a recycled plastic, maybe the transparency is missing
也许我不想使用可回收的塑料
because the recycling process.
也许由于回收过程而缺少透明度
Then I have to think whether this would be better burning
然后 我必须考虑这
and at least get the energy back.
是否会更好地燃烧并至少恢复能量
This leads to so-called, difficult word now,
这导致所谓的现在困难词语
lifecycle assessment.
生命周期评估
This has to be done professionally.
这必须专业地完成
It's done in industry, academics usually do that last.
这是在行业中完成的 学者通常会这样做
Like chemists like me, need colleagues helping here,
像我这样的化学家 我们的同事在这里可以提供帮助
but this has to be done more if it comes
但是 如果它属于实际应用领域
in a real application field.
则必须做更多的工作
- A lot of people when they hear about burning plastic
- 许多人听到塑料燃烧的消息时
will suddenly become a bit panicked
会突然对由此产生的排放
about the emissions that could come from that.
感到惊慌
And the emissions that come from recycling plastic.
而排放来自回收塑料
What plans could there be in order to mitigate
当您尝试解决塑料污染问题时
the effect on climate change as you try
可以采取什么计划来
and tackle plastic pollution as a problem?
减轻对气候变化的影响
Charlotte?
夏洛特
Well and, I'm sorry Andreas.
好吧 对不起安德里亚斯
- That is an important question.
- 这是一个重要的问题
We all want to and have to reduce the CO2 footprint.
我们都希望减少并且必须减少二氧化碳的排放量
There's no doubt about that.
毫无疑问
We know all why that is the case.
我们都知道为什么会这样
And recycling is not recycling.
回收不仅仅是回收
Recycling can be really either break it down
回收实际上可以是将其分解为
to the starting materials and reuse it again.
起始物质 然后再次使用
This is a very efficient process,
这是一个非常有效的过程
but also a demanding process which has
但也有可能需要
maybe a CO2 footprint.
二氧化碳的足迹
But, we can also re-engineer it
但是 我们也可以对其进行重新设计
and make out of a beaker maybe a table, for example,
并用烧杯制成
or a cloth.
例如桌子或布料
Then, it will have a different CO2 footprint,
然后 它将有一个不同的二氧化碳足迹
but whatever we do we will need some energy.
但是无论我们做什么 我们都需要一些能量
Again, the trade-off is a solution we have to see.
同样 权衡是解决方案 我们必须看到
Is it easier to make a new polymer and burn the rest
制备新聚合物并燃烧剩余的并获得二氧化碳
and get the CO2 or just to recycle it?
还是仅将其回收更容易呢
This has to be carefully calculated and cannot be ended.
这必须要小心计算且无法结束
Plastic is a wide field, there is not a single plastic.
塑料是一个广阔的领域 没有单一的塑料
We have a huge variety of plastics
我们拥有各种各样的塑料
because in our everyday life it's like oxygen.
因为在我们的日常生活中它就像氧气
We all have to breathe here and out in the world
我们所有人都必须在这里和外面呼吸
we have to breathe.
我们必须呼吸
We don't notice the oxygen, but if it's not there
我们没有注意到氧气 但是如果没有氧气
we notice it, same with plastic.
我们会注意到氧气 塑料也一样
- Yoshioka, have you got anything you'd like to say more
- 吉冈 关于回收再利用
about recycling particularly?
您还有什么想说的吗
- Yeah, now they're focusing on the carbon dioxide,
- 是的 现在他们专注于二氧化碳
but concerning plastic recycling and plastic treatment
但涉及塑料回收和塑料处理
we have to consider the other chemical substances.
我们必须考虑其他化学物质
For example, the plastic contains a lot of additives.
例如 塑料包含很多添加剂
And sometimes they are added to the environment,
有时它们被添加到环境中
but now that they are prohibited from using them.
但是现在禁止使用它们
In addition, the process of recovering
此外 回收
plastic chemical raw materials
塑料化工原料的过程
can be recycled as resources, as raw materials
可以作为资源循环利用
without generating harmful substances.
而不会产生有害物质
And then, of course, the carbon dioxide
然后 当然是二氧化碳
is one of the harmful substances.
是有害物质之一
And then how to treat the plastic materials
那么如何处理塑料原料
and we have to consider every kind
我们必须考虑
of chemical substances.
各种化学物质
- How difficult is it to do or make all these changes?
- 做出或进行所有这些改变有多困难
- We have many types of plastic recycling methods.
- 我们有多种类型的塑料回收方法
Physical recycling processing and chemical recycling process
物理回收处理和化学回收处理以及燃烧过程
and the burning. I don’t like to call it burning
和不喜欢以燃烧为命名的方法
it’s better called an energy recovery system.
我想要 这对能量回收系统来说更好
- Energy recovery? - Yeah, energy recovery.
- 能量回收 -是的 能量回收
And there's three types of recycling method we have.
我们有三种回收方法
And we have to select which recycling system is better
而且我们必须为每种塑料材料选择
for each plastic material which
哪种回收系统更好
depends on the dirty ones and impurity ones
取决于 这取决于肮脏和不洁的东西
and have to the history of how to use that one.
并取决于如何使用它的历史
And we have to select which recycling method is better.
而且 我们必须选择哪种回收方法更好
- Something that has been mentioned a bit
- 最近几天提到的是
over the last few days is new plastics.
新型塑料
Charlotte, what do we mean by new plastics exactly?
夏洛特 我们所说的新型塑料到底是什么意思
- Well, we've alluded to the fact that plastics
- 好吧 我们已经提到了一个事实 即塑料不仅可以
catches a lot of different materials, chemistries,
用于塑料包装 而且可以用于很多
additives and forms of material not just plastic packaging.
不同的材料 化学物质 添加剂和材料形式
And so, when we talk about new plastics and polymers
所以 当我们谈论新型塑料和聚合物
we've got an opportunity here as a field
我们在这里有机会
and as an industry to think really carefully
作为一个行业认真仔细考虑我们在
about the way that we design at a molecular level
分子水平上设计的方式以及在
and at the article level the objects that we use.
文章层面上使用的对象的方式
And so, this might mean careful redesign
因此 这可能意味着对现有材料
of existing materials to make sure
进行仔细的重新设计 以确保它们
that they really fulfil these sustainability criteria.
确实满足这些可持续性标准
- What is your criteria when you come to,
- 您的标准是什么
we wanna make something more sustainable
我们想要使可持续发展的
what is the criteria that you mark it against?
标准是什么 你反对吗
- Exactly as Andreas said, it's a complete examination
- 就像安德里亚斯所说的那样
of what happens from the very beginning
这是对从制造聚合物
of making the polymer, the raw material you use,
所使用的原材料的一开始
through its use and what happens at the end.
就发生了什么事情的全面检查
Now, the difficulty in doing that type of assessment
现在 进行此类评估的难点在于
is how do you relatively offset different impacts
您如何相对抵消不同的影响
and I think we've already alluded to this.
我想我们已经提到了这一点
But, that's what we are using already as a field
但是 这就是我们已经将其作为一个领域而使用
and will continue to use in proposing new types of plastics.
并将继续用于提出新型塑料
One of the really inspiring things that we've heard here
我们在CS3大会上听到的真正
at CS3 is the potential to use
令人鼓舞的事情之一就是
unconventional starting materials
使用非常规原材料
to make some of these plastics.
制造其中一些塑料的潜力
- [Laura] Like what?
- [劳拉] 怎么样
- Well, for example, we might be in future using
- 好吧 例如 我们
wastes from agriculture or from other industries.
将来可能会使用农业或其他行业的废物
We might be more efficiently using some
我们可能会更有效地使用一些
of the plastics that are out there
那里的塑料
and reforming them into new types of chemistry and product.
并将其改造为新型化学产品
We might even be using CO2, that most troublesome of gases,
我们甚至可能正在使用二氧化碳
as a raw material to make polymers from.
最麻烦的气体 作为制造聚合物的原料
So, one of the great excitements for me here
因此 对我来说 最激动的事情之一
is hearing that in future we use
就是 我们将来会使用这些天然化学物质
these range of natural chemistries
来提高聚合物寿命终结时
to improve the ability to break at the end of the life
分解成可回收
that polymer into things that can be recycled
利用物质的能力
or where the application demands it, biodegraded.
或在需要的地方进行生物降解
- It sounds like new plastics have the potential
- 听起来新型塑料有潜力
to solve a lot of problems at the same time.
同时解决很多问题
But Andreas, how expensive is this though?
但是安德里亚斯 不过这有多昂贵
That's what a lot of people wonder.
这就是很多人想知道的
- [Andreas] Are you looking at me?
- [安德里亚斯] 你在看着我吗
- Yes. (all laughing)
- 是的
Are you not going to pay for it all?
您不打算为此付出一切吗
- Of course, the development of a new plastic
- 当然 开发新型塑料
is always expensive.
总是很昂贵的
It starts with the research, with the fundamental research
从研究开始 从基础研究开始
which has to be done and numbers of students
这是必须要做的 并且必须有大量的
and professors have to work on that.
学生和教授在这方面进行工作
Then this has to be transferred to industry.
然后 必须将其转移到工业中
They have to do the build of the productions,
他们必须制作产品
the quality management, it's a long process
质量管理 这是一个漫长的过程
and then finally the marketing people have to
然后最后 营销人员必须
bring it to the market, has wide circulation, everything,
把它推向市场 有广泛传播 一切
but it pays off.
但它有回报
There’s no way around.
正在附近
I want to give you an example.
我想举一个例子
We all need better batteries, urgently,
我们都急需更好的电池
to reduce our CO2 footprint, to collect the sunlight,
为了减少我们的二氧化碳足迹 收集阳光
save it in the battery, then we can heat
将其保存在电池中 然后我们可以
our house overnight and run the fridges all overnight.
将房子加热一整夜 然后让冰箱整夜运转
For this we urgently need better membranes
为此 我们迫切需要电池中更好的膜
in the batteries and these membranes are usually plastics,
这些膜通常是塑料的
but the existing plastics are not good enough yet
但是现有的塑料还不足以
to really have the super batteries.
真正拥有超级电池
So, we are on a good way here, but there's a lot of room.
所以 我们这里很好 但是还有很多空间
It's just a single example for what we need.
这只是我们需要的一个例子
Or better packaging material for food packaging
或更优质的食品包装材料
that our food is longer preserved.
我们的食物保存时间更长
And here is, I'm not talking
这里是 我不是在谈论
about communication or transport
关于通讯运输
For example, lightweight materials
例如 轻质材料
which are important for the electric cars
这对于电动汽车来说很重要
that they can run through long
因为它们可以长时间运行且耗电量少
with less electricity consumption and to other places well.
并且可以很好地到达其他地方
And here is the room for the new plastics
我认为这是新型塑料和工业的空间
and industry, I think, is aware of that,
我知道
that they need new plastics.
这需要新型塑料
They could be more aware, of course,
他们当然会更清楚
but there's no way around that.
但是没有办法解决
- Are you seeing a lot of funding coming from industry
- 您是否看到业界从这类研究中
into this kind of research?
获得大量资金
- That's a good question.
- 这是个好问题
- A question for all of you there.
- 在那里给大家一个问题
- If I may, I think the industry are
- 如果可以的话 我认为这个行业
really well engaged with this problem.
确实很好地解决了这个问题
And their customers and the general public
他们的客户和公众
are demanding this.
要求这个
So, I think it would be simplistic to imply
所以 我认为
that only academics would be involved
简单地说 只有学者会参与解决问题
in solving the problem, absolutely wouldn't be so.
绝对不会
But, what's really important is that we accelerate through
但是 真正重要的是
the process of improving these materials.
我们通过改进这些材料的过程来加速
And so, close working with a range of industries
因此 与各种行业紧密合作
this could be really important
这可能真的很重要
because Andreas has given us a hint
因为安德里亚斯给了我们一个提示
of how technologically complex, you know,
您知道技术上有多么复杂
this is really a piece of customised design
这真的是一块定制设计
even in a simple piece, of relatively apparently
即使是简单的包装
simple piece, of plastic packaging.
也可能是相对简单的塑料包装
And so, working together to make sure we get that right
因此 共同努力确保我们做对了
is really really important and we need to do it quickly.
真的很重要 而且我们需要尽快做到
- What other industries need to get on board then?
- 那么还有哪些其他行业需要加入
Xianhong?
献红
- Other industries than the chemical industry.
- 其他行业 化学工业
- Yeah, for example, in China we have such kind
- 是的 例如 中国 我们有这种
of new plastics like biodegradable plastics
像这样的可生物降解的新型塑料
and actually started from U.S.A. and also German.
实际上是从美国和德国开始的
Kind of in China we have more than one solvent factories
在中国 我们有不止一个溶剂工厂
or companies doing biodegradable plastics.
或从事可生物降解塑料的公司
So, they support a lot for academic research.
因此 他们为学术研究提供了很多支持
- There are a lot of scientists who work a lot
- 有很多科学家做了大量工作与有关部门合作
with chemical companies, with car companies,
与化学公司 汽车公司
textile companies, industries
纺织公司 进行过滤的工业
makes a filtration, agriculture companies,
农业公司
you name it is standard for polymer scientists
您将其命名为聚合物科学家与所有这些
to work with all these different industries, important.
不同行业合作的标准 这一点很重要
And there's a constant communication.
并且有持续的沟通
And you're absolutely right, of course industry
您说的没错 行业当然做了很多研究
has done a lot of research, but I also think
但我也认为
there has to be nowadays room for disruptive development.
如今必须有颠覆性发展的空间
That we do not just improve the existing materials,
我们不只是改善现有的材料
that we also think of new avenues.
我们也认为有新的途径
For example, for this battery problem,
例如 对于此电池问题
to really get the kind of disruptive development we need,
要真正获得我们需要的颠覆性发展
not only a constant development.
而不仅仅是持续发展
We have to be faster, so we need some kind of new ideas
我们必须更快 所以我们
maybe from young people which are out there
需要一些新想法 也许是年轻人
and they have a brilliant idea and I come in there
他们有一个绝妙的主意 我参与进来了
and they should have the room to do that.
他们应该有这样做的空间
- And how much research is being dedicated
- 专门进行了哪些研究
to examining the potential impacts of these new plastics
来检查这些新型塑料
on the environment?
对环境的潜在影响
Or does that go hand-in-hand with developing them
还是从一开始就
from the beginning?
与它们发展齐头并进
- I think the awareness is now very high.
- 我认为现在人们的意识很高
In past we had the discussion about the danger
过去 我们曾讨论过现代技术的
and lesser potential of modern technology.
危险性和较小的潜力
And in that time, the advantage
在那个时候
of new technology is much more.
新技术的优势更多
In fact, I'm very thankful that
实际上 我非常感谢
people talk now about plastics.
人们现在谈论塑料
Because plastics somehow were given as there,
因为那里以某种方式提供了塑料
it's very taken for granted.
这是理所当然的
Now we talk about it and it's so important
现在我们谈论它 它是如此重要
to explain to the layman out in the world
向外面的人解释
what is a plastic.
什么是塑料
What do you have in your hand?
你手里有什么
You lay in the bed and you lay on plastic maybe.
您躺在床上 也许躺在塑料上
You should know what you are, I became a chemist
你应该知道你是什么 我成为化学家
because I want to know what is around me.
因为我想知道我周围是什么
That was the reason.
那就是原因
And everybody has the right to know that.
每个人都有权知道这一点
And I think we have the duty to explain it
我认为我们有责任对此进行解释
in simple words, as simple as possible.
简单来说 就是尽可能简单
- Yes, I think I can speak for the whole world
- 是的 我想我可以为全世界说话
when they say that they want answers
当他们说他们想要答案时
and they often want simple ones.
他们经常想要简单的东西
But, if they can't get simple quick answers
但是 如果他们不能快速得到简单的答案
then at least they'll have it clearly explained to them
那么至少清楚地
that it's a bit more complicated.
向他们说明它有点复杂
We've talked about all these potential developments
我们已经讨论了所有这些潜在的发展
that are being made in this field.
在这个领域正在做的
What sort of time frames are we talking about
当我们谈论使塑料更易降解时
when we're talking about making plastic more degradable?
我们谈论的是哪种时间框架
When we're talking about improving recycling?
当我们谈论改善回收利用时
Is it gonna happen in the next ten years?
未来十年会发生吗
To what extent is it already happening?
它已经在多大程度上发生了
- They're the geographical expectations.
- 他们是地理上的期望
I think in China they are much faster than Germans.
我认为在中国 他们比德国人快得多
- Well, let's go around the world with the answer.
- 好吧 让我们带着答案走遍世界
- It already happens.
- 已经发生了
And, you know, currently new plastic
而且 您知道 目前像可生物降解塑料
like biodegradable plastic is still in the baby stage.
这样的新型塑料仍处于起步阶段
So, we need more chemistry in the fix.
因此 我们需要更多的化学方法
And it's depending on corporations to push
而且要依靠企业来推动
such new plastics for real application, yeah.
这样的新型塑料达到真正的应用 是的
So, for example like in China, our academic colleges,
因此 例如在中国 我们的大学
postage bag and garbage bag and also
邮资袋和垃圾袋
in agriculture machine fuel.
以及农业机械燃料中
So, we encourage ways that we can find a way
所以 我们鼓励可以找到一种方法
to make such new plastics that has less
制造这种对环境影响较小
environmental impacts and also less public concern
且在使用后最终产品上也较少引起
on the final object after use, you know.
公众关注的新型塑料 你懂的
- I would say how aware do you think
- 我想说的是 您认为公众已经意识到
the general public are that these changes
这些变化已经在发生
are already being made and that they're seeing
并且正在居住地的大街上
them on their high streets or where they live?
看到它们吗
- [Andreas] You want the number of years?
- [安德里亚斯] 您要多少年
- I want you to place a bet right now.
- 我希望你现在下注
- In calmer times the development of a new plastic
- 在较平静的时期开发新型塑料
took about 20 to 30 years.
需要大约20至30年的时间
This of course no more there.
这当然不会了
We have now much better infrastructure
我们现在有了更好的基础设施
to do the development.
搞开发
It takes some time.
需要一些时间
You should take a pill against headache
你应该服用预防头痛的药
it always takes some time until the headache goes.
总是要花一些时间直到头痛消失
But, it's not like that of course.
安德里亚斯·格瑞纳教授 拜罗伊特大学 但是 这当然不是那样
I think a realistic aspect could be with nowadays
我认为现实的方面可能是当今的沟通方式
ways of communication and what all we know already 10 years.
以及我们十年来所知道的一切
I just now say, you can oppose that,
我刚才说 你可以反对
but I think 10 years from scratch
但我认为从头开始到我们在货架上看到它
to that we see it on the shelf.
需要10年时间
- Okay, 10 years, brilliant.
- 好的 十年了
We'll meet back here.
我们会在这里见面
- [Andreas] Don't take me on that.
- [安德里亚斯] 不要接受我
- [Laura] Yoshioka?
- [劳拉] 吉冈
- [Yoshioka] In the case of Japan?
- [吉冈] 以日本为例
- Yes.
- 是的
- In Japan the Japanese government make plastics strategy
- 在日本 政府制定了
until 2030 that main target in the recycle issue
塑料战略2030
would be doubled until now.
回收问题的主要目标将翻一番
And then the biodegradable and bio plastics
吉冈俊明教授 东北大学 然后 在日本生物可降解和生物塑料的市场
the market is more expanded
总产量进一步扩大到
to the total of two million ton production in Japan.
200万吨
But, I think that amount is too much.
但是 我认为这个数量太多了
Maybe it's a very very high number.
也许这是一个非常高的数字
But, Japanese make that strategy.
但是 日本人制定了这一策略
And again, because if we use the new plastics
再说一次 因为如果我们
including the bio plastics, in that case,
使用包括生物塑料在内的新型塑料
the lowering of the cost
那将降低成本 在这种情况下
and in that case we need a more expanded market.
我们需要一个更大的市场
And with that strategy recycling is doubled
通过这种策略 新型塑料将一直生产到2030年
and new plastics making it until 2030.
回收利用将增加一倍
- Okay, I'm just gonna take a step away now
- 好的 现在我要走开
'cause we're getting a lot of questions coming in
因为我们收到了来自世界各地的
from people around the world.
人们的许多疑问
Elisabeth, what questions are coming in?
伊丽莎白 有什么问题要问
- So we've got people tuning in from all around the world
- 因此 从印度到保加利亚
from India to Bulgaria.
我们吸引了来自世界各地的人们
So, one question we've heard from Mteresa MNogueira
我们从瓜拉州的Mteresa MNogueira
is are there any studies
听到的一个问题是
to create plastics from agricultural waste?
有没有研究用农业废料制造塑料
And if so, can you give an example?
如果是这样 您能举个例子吗
- Do you want to start?
- 你想开始
From agricultural waste.
来自农业废物
- So, it's a very important question, you know.
- 因此 这是一个非常重要的问题
Currently in China we use nearly two million tons
在中国 我们使用了近200万吨的
of polyethylene for packaging film.
聚乙烯作为机械燃料
So, as they cause a lot of agriculture waste
因此它们造成了很多农业浪费 王献红教授 长春应用化学研究所
and also maybe harmful for soil, soil safety.
也可能对土壤 土壤安全有害
So, in that case, first we encourage recycling
因此 在这种情况下 我们首先鼓励回收
of such plastics, but still we find in a huge land area
这种塑料 但我们仍然发现在广阔的土地上
we cannot recycle so easily.
我们还不能做到轻易回收
So, we may need biodegradable plastics
因此 我们可能需要可生物降解的塑料
to push in to deal with the agricultural waste.
推动处理农业废弃物
- Maybe I can extend the view a little bit
- 也许我可以扩大视野
on this interesting question
关于这个有趣的问题
because Charlotte and myself and many other colleagues
因为夏洛特和我本人以及
work now on using the orange shells ingredients
其他许多同事现在都在使用橙皮成分
which are, we get a lot of orange juice
所以我们得到了很多橙汁
and we get orange shells and how to use the orange shells
也得到了橙皮 如何使用橙皮
which is also agricultural waste
也是一种农业浪费
And there's a compound which we all know
还有一种我们都知道的化合物
when you look at the back of your shampoo bottle
当您查看样品瓶的背面时
you might read limonene.
您可能会看到柠檬烯
This comes out of the orange shells.
这是从橙皮得来的
But our groups do, for example, with CO2
但是 例如 我们的小组的确
out of this a very nice polymer.
从这种非常好的聚合物中吸收了二氧化碳
So, one can use such ingredients of real agricultural waste
因此 人们可以使用植物中
from a plant to make plastics.
真正的农业废料的这种成分来制造塑料
I think it's very nice to do that.
我认为这样做非常好
It's not yet in application as far as I know,
据我所知 它尚未在应用中
but many companies are interested in that.
但是许多公司对此感兴趣
Because although available in large amounts
因为虽然可以大量称重 但它是一种
it's a small compound which you can get out
很小的化合物 您可以从中取出
and what else to do with the orange shell?
而与橙皮还有什么关系呢
Some countries use the orange shells.
一些国家使用橙皮
Like in Brazil they use it a lot nowadays
就像在巴西 他们现在经常使用它
for making food for cows and so on,
为牛等做食物
but in other countries like in China
但是在中国这样的其他国家
orange shells, as far as I know,
据我所知 橙皮使用并不太多
are not used too much. - It's a huge amount.
- 它的数量巨大
- It's a huge amount, but not used for that.
- 这是一个很大的数量 但并未用于此目的
There's a large potential.
潜力很大
- But in China's case and China tries to make
- 但就中国而言
a lot of other plastics in agriculture,
中国试图在农业中制造许多其他塑料
but in that case I agree.
而在这种情况下 人们是同意的
But, there are many kinds of agricultural plastics
但是 农用塑料种类很多
such as a house or cupboard, in that case
在这种情况下 例如房屋或橱柜
it's difficult to use the biodegradable plastic.
很难使用可生物降解的塑料
In that case we need to do the recycle and collect it.
因此 我们需要进行回收并收集
And we have to consider how to do the biodegradable,
而且 我们必须考虑如何进行生物降解
how to collect all the waste plastics.
如何收集所有废塑料
And the two types of treatment is necessary
并且两种类型的处理
for the sustainable plastic use.
对于可持续的塑料使用是必需的
- Charlotte, do you want to add anything to that point?
- 夏洛特 你想补充什么呢
- Yes, so there are a number of plastics
- 是的 所以目前有许多塑料
that are currently sourced from plants.
来自植物
But, at the moment the majority of those materials
但是 目前这些材料中的大多数
are still quite small scale.
仍处于相当小的规模
The larger scale example would be polylactic acid
较大的例子是聚乳酸
and that comes from lactic acid
它来自乳酸
that was originally sourced from glucose.
最初来自葡萄糖
And at the moment, that glucose source
夏洛特·威廉姆斯教授 牛津大学 目前 这种葡萄糖源
comes from crops that you might eat.
来自您可能会食用的农作物
But, actually in the future, there's very intense research
但是 实际上在未来 会有非常深入的研究
and real possibility to substitute that
并有可能用非食用作物
with either nonedible crops or co-products of agriculture.
或农业副产品替代
I guess we have to always be a little bit careful
我想我们必须对废物这个术语保持谨慎
with the term waste because, you know,
因为 你懂的
what might be assumed to be a waste
在多年的人类进化过程中
from one industry can find over many years
可以发现被认为是
of human evolution other uses, right?
一个行业的浪费的东西 对吗
But, I would say co-products going along
但是 我要说的是 副产品会与其他行业一起发展
with other industries and finding uses for things
并为目前对他们而言
that are currently not so valuable to them
不那么有价值的事物找到用途
that's an interesting idea for making plastics
这是制造塑料的有趣主意
and one that certainly the community
当然 社区确实
is really engaged in researching.
在从事研究
- Yeah, it sounds very promising results thus far
- 是的 到目前为止 这听起来是
and there's a lot more room to go.
非常令人鼓舞的结果 而且还有更多的空间
- Absolutely, absolutely.
- 绝对是
- Another question
- 另一个问题
- So, Sam Hill on YouTube wants to know,
- YouTube上的山姆·希尔想知道
is there still a risk that biodegradable polymers
是否存在可生物降解的聚合物
will still break down into micro plastics
仍会分解成微塑料
that could cause further environmental problems?
可能引起进一步的环境问题的的风险
- I think it's a very good question
- 我认为这是一个很好的问题
and one in which the kind of environmental
而且环境和毒理学界
and toxicological community are very actively engaged.
也非常积极地参与其中
And, at this point, I think it would premature
而且 在这一点上
for anybody to say no in answer to that.
我认为任何人对此表示拒绝还为时过早
But, I think that the early signs in testing
但是 我认为测试这些材料的
of those materials is that the design is appropriate.
早期迹象是设计合适
There may be things to improve
生物降解所需的
about the relative amount of time that it takes
相对时间
for things to biodegrade.
可能有所改善
We need to be very careful
我们需要非常小心
because the environment is a complicated place,
因为环境是一个复杂的领域
but we are engaged in the scientific discussions
但是我们正在进行科学讨论
and we've seen that in a very inspiring way
我们已经看到了一种非常鼓舞人心的方式
at this meeting.
在这次会议上
We've seen both very compelling evidence
我们已经看到了非常有说服力的证据
of the problem of pervasive micro plastics
证明了以老式方式制造的
that were made in the old fashioned ways
普遍使用的微塑料的问题
and the research that's going to make sure
并且已经进行了研究
that we avoid these unintended consequences in future.
以确保我们将来避免这些意外的后果
- Xianhong, do you see a world where
- 献红 您是否看到一个世界
we won't be talking about micro plastics so much
我们不会像现在这样
in the way that we currently do?
谈论微塑料呢
- Yeah, during the past two years
- 是的 在过去两年中
we heard a lot about micro plastics, yeah.
是的 我们听到了很多有关微塑料的信息
Actually, for such kind of micro plastics
实际上 对于这种微塑料
we can find it in the sea and also in the land.
我们可以在海洋中和陆地上找到
So, it's true, but we can find a new way.
因此 这是事实 但是我们可以找到新的方法
We can use new plastics or if we can use
我们可以使用新型塑料
like a biodegradable plastics it can be degraded
或者如果我们可以像可生物降解的塑料一样使用
into not a micro plastic but to molecules
它可以被降解为二氧化碳或水之类的分子
like CO2 and water, something like that.
而不是微塑料
So, it should be, we needn't be concerned
因此 应该是 我们不必担心微塑料
about micro plastics with such kind of new plastics.
与这种新型塑料
- It's all about breaking things down
- 都是要把东西分解成更好的东西
into nicer things rather than micro plastics.
而不是微塑料
Andreas?
安德里亚斯 对吗
- We initiated a large research program
- 我们发起了一项有关微塑料的
on micro plastics involving
大型研究计划 涉及
more than 30 research groups at Bayreuth
30多个研究小组
and surrounding universities
以及周围的大学
because we don't know anything
因为我们对微塑料的作用
about the effect of micro plastics.
一无所知
We know it's there, more or less.
我们知道它在那里或多或少
Know anything what does it do to any organisms
知道什么对生物和我们自己都有什么作用
and to ourself also, very interesting.
非常有趣
We don't know how it is transported
我们不知道它如何
through the different environments or the air and soil.
通过不同的环境或空气和土壤运输
It is happening, but we don't know how.
它正在发生 但我们不知道如何进行的
And we don't know how it's being formed
而且我们不知道它是如何形成的
because micro plastic is not micro plastic.
因为微塑料不单单是微塑料
It can consist out of many polymers,
它可以由许多聚合物组成
many ingredients which are in there
里面有很多成分
and what is really a danger if there's any danger?
如果有危险 那真正的危险是什么
We don't know it yet and we have to find it out
我们还不知道 我们必须找出答案
and they are worldwide,
并且它们在全世界范围内
very intensive research efforts now
现在都在进行大量的研究工作
to find out what does a micro plastic do to us?
找出微塑料对我们有什么作用吗
And then only we can find solutions
然后 只有我们才能找到解决方案
to do something against it.
对它采取行动
And I would like to emphasise there's not a way
我想强调的是
to fish it out of the water in the ocean.
没有办法将其从海洋中捞出
You destroy so much organisms doing that
您破坏了如此多的生物
that many of us strongly oppose that.
以致我们中许多人强烈反对
Better way is to avoid it at all, is the better solution
更好的方法是完全避免它
or find other solutions.
是更好的解决方案或找到其他解决方案
But for this, we need to know these mechanisms.
但是为此 我们需要了解这些机制
And scientists and industry as well
科学家和工业界
is now active in battling this problem.
现在也都在积极应对这一问题
- Would you agree that progression
- 您是否同意
with things like degradability and recyclability
除非我们对微塑料有更多了解
can't really happen unless we know more
否则诸如降解性和可回收性之类的事情
about micro plastics?
不会真正发生吗
- No, I would not agree on that
- 不 我不同意
because these are two different issues.
因为这是两个不同的问题
For example, the micro plastic is,
例如 微塑料是
the majority is being formed by polyethylene,
大部分是由聚乙烯
polypropylene, polyethylene terephthalate,
聚丙烯 聚对苯二甲酸乙二醇酯形成的
just to name some of them which are
仅列举其中一些 即所谓的商品塑料
so-called commodity plastics which are used
与目前市场上可降解的聚合物相比
in large amounts in contrast to degradable polymers
它们被大量使用
which are now in the market are used in,
到目前为止
by far, lower values.
其价值较低
You might find them nowadays on a compost plant
如今您可能会在堆肥植物上发现它们
because they don't degrade in the time
在那时它们不会降解
as they should degrade as the compost
当堆肥运出田间时
is bring out of the fields.
它们应降解
But, this is really a relatively small amount
但是 与所谓的大塑料相比
in comparison to the so-called big plastics.
这确实是相对较小的数量
- I think it's really important to talk about
- 我认为在这个领域里
the time scales for technological deployment
谈论技术部署的时间尺度
in this field.
是非常重要的
There's an immediate term crisis
近期有危机
and we need immediate term research to understand
我们需要进行长期研究
what's happening in our environment.
以了解我们环境中正在发生的事情
But, we also need to kickstart research rapidly
但是 我们还需要迅速启动研究
so that we can solve some of those problems.
以便解决其中的一些问题
And we simply cannot afford to wait
我们根本无法等到
until we have all the answers about polythene
获得有关聚乙烯的所有答案之后
before we begin bringing through the research,
在我们开始进行研究之前
through that pipeline that takes time,
需要花费时间
so that we have materials
这样我们就有
that don't give rise to these problems.
不会引起这些问题的材料
So, we have to talk to one another.
所以 我们必须互相交流
We have to keep the two communities really
我们必须让这两者真正保持积极的讨论
in active discussion, but we can't do this
但是我们不能以线性的方式进行讨论
in a linear way where we wait for the answer there
因为我们要在那里等待答案
before we make change.
才能做出改变
- It's got to be everything happening at the same time.
- 一切都将同时发生
- Absolutely, absolutely.
- 绝对是 绝对是
- Elisabeth, I think we've got time
- 伊丽莎白 我想在我不得不总结之前
for one more question before I have to wrap.
我们还有时间再提一个问题
- Georgina Gregory on YouTube wants to know,
- YouTube上的乔治娜·格雷戈里想知道
what do we do about the plastic already in the ocean?
我们如何处理海洋中已经存在的塑料
- Andreas, you touched on this just now didn't you?
- 安德里亚斯 您刚才提到了这个 不是吗
What do you do about the plastic already in the ocean?
您如何处理海洋中已经存在的塑料
You're not a fan of removing it with a net.
您不喜欢用网将其移除
- If I would know the answer,
- 如果我知道答案
I would maybe not be sitting here.
我可能不会坐在这里
As I said already, I think the fishing out of that
正如我已经说过的那样
is not a solution.
我认为从中捞出不是解决办法
Like having big nets which go around
就像用网在周围
and fishing out the plastic may cause more harm
捞出塑料袋可能会造成的危害
than letting it be there.
大于在那里存放的危害
- [Laura] What is the solution then?
- [劳拉] 那怎么解决
- In fact, I have no proper answer for that.
- 实际上 我对此没有适当的答案
To do with plastic that is right now in the ocean?
与现在在海洋中的塑料有关吗
- Does anyone have?
- 有人有答案吗
- The question should be how much we have already.
- 问题应该是我们已经有多少
- I'm sure if we all knew the concrete answer
- 我确定我们都知道具体答案
it would be happening already.
它已经发生了
- I have something independently that I want to say.
- 我想说我有一些独立的东西
Everyone should be aware of not just the bad aspects
每个人都应该意识到
of plastics, but also they play important roles
不仅塑料方面
such as improve quality of life,
而且它们还起着重要作用
such as reducing energy consumption.
例如改善生活质量 例如减少能耗
I'd keep that and the current plastics issue,
我会保留当前的塑料问题
current plastics problem such as micro plastics also,
当前的塑料问题 例如微塑料
is one of the challenges that struck our lifestyle change.
也是我们改变生活方式的挑战之一
This issue is not focusing on plastic only
这个问题不仅仅集中在塑料上
and that issue is centered to the
而且集中在
how to do the lifestyle changes.
如何改变生活方式上
- That's an interesting point, Yoshioka,
- 有趣的是 吉冈
'cause a lot of people want to know
因为很多人想知道
well what, if I take one thing away from this,
那么 如果我不做任何事情
what should I be doing so I can help
该怎么办
with this plastic pollution problem
那么从您的角度来看
from your points of view?
我可以帮助解决这个塑料污染问题吗
- Everybody should stop immediately dumping garbage
- 每个人都应立即停止将垃圾倒入海洋
into the ocean, which is still happening.
但这仍在发生
And if we would stop that immediately
如果我们立即停止
this would help a lot.
这会很有帮助
If everybody in the when or wherever
如果每个人无论何时何地
would commit themselves we don't dump from boats,
都愿意承诺我们不会从船上倾倒垃圾
and I don't know what, any garbage in the ocean anymore
我不知道海洋中是否还会有什么垃圾
this would help a lot.
这将大有帮助
- Xianhong, you're nodding along.
- 贤宏 你在点头
- Yes, contrary, it's so difficult to deal
- 是的 然而相反
with the past pollution in the ocean.
很难应对过去的海洋污染
It's very difficult.
这非常困难
Maybe we can collect, but it takes
也许我们可以收集 但这需要
a lot of, I think, energy and cost, yeah,
我认为 很多能源和成本 是的
at least cost easier.
至少成本容易
So, I agree with Andreas here.
所以 我在这里同意安德烈亚斯的观点
So country which needs more education
因此 必须让那样的国家接受塑料教育
to stop putting plastic into rivers and ocean.
才能停止在河流和海洋中投放塑料
- And Charlotte, would you like to say anything?
- 夏洛特 你想说什么吗
- I do think that it's a very interesting question
- 我确实认为这是
that we're asked.
我们被问到的一个非常有趣的问题
And we heard at the conference
我们在会议上听说了模型的重要性
of the importance of models and understanding
以及了解海洋中的塑料
of what happens to that plastic that's in the ocean.
会发生什么情况的重要性
And I think that that's essential
我认为至关重要的是我们构建了
that we build an almost world scale model of what’s going on.
几乎世界规模的模型 正在发生的事情
By we I mean the community of scientists
我的意思是从事这项活动的科学家团体
engaged in this activity.
因此 我们了解是否有
So, that we understand if there are easier opportunities
更容易的机会
to remove some of it.
将其删除
So, unlike Andreas, I think if we can
因此 与安德里亚斯不同
take some of that plastic out we should explore
我认为 如果我们可以从中取出一些塑料
every possibility to do so until we are sure
我们应该探索这样做的所有可能性
that there's not a negative impact
直到我们确定没有负面影响为止
because at the moment it is not clear
因为目前还不清楚
what the impact of those materials in the sea is.
这些物质对海洋的影响是什么
And some of the interesting research here
我们在这里听到的一些有趣的研究是
that we heard about was how often small particles
小颗粒多久被搁浅
get beached and washed away from beaches and so on.
并从海滩上冲走等等
So, that was certainly very eye opening for me
所以 这当然让我大开眼界
and of course, a natural consequence of tides
当然 这是潮汐的自然结果
one might say, but are there opportunities
有人可能会说 但是有机会吗
through really understanding that
通过真正地理解
to grab some of that plastic out
获取一些塑料
and at least try to limit some of these effects.
至少可以尝试限制其中一些影响
Of course, the comments that my colleagues make
当然 就适当的废物管理而言
about immediately turning off the tap
同事们提出的
in terms of appropriate waste management
立即关闭水龙头的意见
is highly important.
非常重要
- Thank you all so much for sparing the time.
- 非常感谢您抽出宝贵的时间
I know it's been a long three days
我知道已经过了三天
and I'm really glad you can share with everyone
我很高兴您可以与所有人分享
what you've been talking about.
您一直在谈论的内容
And the full results will come out next year
我相信 完整的结果
sometime I believe.
将在明年的某个时候发布
But, until then, thank you for giving us this insight
但是 在此之前 感谢您
into your world.
让我们深入了解您的世界
It sounds very very optimistic
对于化学可以发挥的所有作用
about all the role that chemistry can play.
听起来非常乐观
But, you're not alone in fighting this problem
但是 您并不孤单地解决这个问题
and it seems like a lot more work is needed
然而似乎在世界各地和整个领域
around the world and across the board
还需要做更多的工作
in order to tackle this plastic pollution problem.
为了解决这个塑料污染问题
I think that's all we've got time for
我想这就是我们有时间
I'm hearing in my ear.
听到的声音
Thank you very much for joining us today.
非常感谢您今天加入我们
The discussion here, the broadcast may be over,
这里的讨论 广播可能已经结束
but the argument and the discussion will continue online,
但是争论和讨论将继续在线进行
so please keep leaving your comments.
因此 请继续留下您的评论
Those hashtags again are #ProgressivePlastics
这些主题标签还是#ProgressivePlastics
and #RSCSustainability.
和#RSCSustainability
We will be milling about and we will be answering
会议结束后 我们将尽全力
some of your questions online after the session.
并且将在线回答您的一些问题
Until then, thank you very much for tuning in.
在那之前 非常感谢您的收看 英国皇家化学学会
Similar videos:

Innovating to zero! | Bill Gates
TED
3.9M views 31.4K likes 12K dislikes 20 Feb 201037% match






Quit the loose climate talk and let's get serious!
Facing Future
19K views 337 likes 20 dislikes 17 Nov 201737% match

Transformation & Crisis: Virtual Keynote Futurist Gerd Leonhard 4 European House / Ambrosetti #zoom
Gerd Leonhard
1.6K views 32 likes 1 dislikes 06 May 202036% match

Azeem Azhar of The Exponential View talks to The Understanding
Unbabel
1.1K views 18 likes 3 dislikes 14 Mar 201836% match

LFTR (Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor) Defended by Kirk Sorensen @ ThEC2018
gordonmcdowell
69.8K views 2K likes 50 dislikes 13 Apr 201935% match

Pressebriefing der Sächsischen Staatsregierung – aktueller Stand zum Coronavirus in Sachsen
FreistaatSachsen
2.6K views 32 likes 10 dislikes 23 Mar 202035% match

Is the Baltic real estate market about to crash? [P2P-Kredite, Reinvest24, Bulkestate]
Passives Einkommen mit P2P Krediten
1.4K views 37 likes 2 dislikes 20 Jun 202035% match

Das neue Superfood - Bugs - Insekten auf dem Teller | MDR DOK
MDR DOK
2.8K views 56 likes 20 dislikes 12 Aug 202035% match

SAARTHEMA extra: Wie das Saarland gegen Corona kämpft
SR deins
1.8K views 15 likes 3 dislikes 27 Mar 202035% match

Afrika Kongress: Rede von Angela Merkel
CDU•CSU Fraktion
16.1K views 37 likes 57 dislikes 19 Jun 200935% match

FinTech Made in Switzerland (2016) - English overdub
Manuel Stagars
4.9K views 38 likes 1 dislikes 22 Nov 201635% match

Do the Math - The Movie
350.org
129.9K views 1.5K likes 58 dislikes 21 Apr 201335% match

Digitales Arbeiten: Macht das unser Leben leichter? - u.a. mit Richard David Precht
SR deins
45.3K views 233 likes 32 dislikes 28 May 202035% match

Bitcoin, Blockchain, InsurTech, Cryptocurrencies & More: FinTech Made in Switzerland | Documentary
China - Insight
10K views 264 likes 7 dislikes 17 Nov 202035% match

Circular Economy Live Webcast with Markus Steilemann
Covestro
1.6K views 32 likes 1 dislikes 26 May 202035% match

FinTech Made in Switzerland (2016) - Swiss German with English, German and Chinese subtitles
Manuel Stagars
14.4K views 123 likes 5 dislikes 16 Nov 201635% match

Dental Implants - frequenly asked questions [Eng. & Rus & BG & Ger. Subtitles]
Бургасдент Стоматолози
960 views 3 likes 0 dislikes 17 Aug 201535% match

James Bridle – Other Intelligences // Spy on Me #2 Online Programme
321HAU
4.2K views 83 likes 1 dislikes 19 Mar 202035% match

Commander's Hub - Episode 1
Star Trek Fleet Command
10.6K views 169 likes 43 dislikes 23 Jun 202035% match

The epidemic is on its way out - Prof. Sunetra Gupta on Coronavirus DEUTSCHE UNTERTITEL
Zeitgenossen.Online
23.8K views 392 likes 17 dislikes 21 May 202035% match

2020 The Venus Project interview - Roxanne Meadows [ENG + SUB]
Жак Фреско
11.1K views 565 likes 15 dislikes 19 Oct 202035% match


Clemens Baumgärtner über die wirtschaftlichen Auswirkungen des Coronavirus
48forward
407 views 1 likes 2 dislikes 14 Jul 202034% match

Lessons from Skype in migrating and managing large-scale Linux infrastructure on Azure IaaS
Microsoft Azure
4.9K views 10 likes 0 dislikes 22 Jun 201734% match

Clash of Clans - Clash Talk Q&A - Episode 2
Clash of Clans
401.8K views 9.2K likes 732 dislikes 20 Nov 201734% match



Latest News & Updates on COVID-19 Tests, Treatments & Long-Term Effects | Johnson & Johnson
Johnson & Johnson
2.6K views 28 likes 6 dislikes 27 Oct 202034% match

Why is COVID-19 Hitting Minority Communities So Hard?
Johnson & Johnson
5.2K views 50 likes 10 dislikes 28 Apr 202034% match

Ministerpräsident Bouffier informiert über die Beschlüsse der Bund-Länder-Konferenz am 13.12.2020
Land Hessen
1.4K views 16 likes 8 dislikes 13 Dec 202034% match

Bund-Länder-Beratung (6. Mai 2020): Ministerpräsident Bouffier informiert über Ergebnisse
Land Hessen
2.6K views 14 likes 3 dislikes 06 May 202034% match

Corona aktuell - der Podcast der Bundesregierung
Bundesregierung
2.3K views 41 likes 350 dislikes 08 Jun 202034% match

Ministerpräsident Bouffier informiert über die Beschlüsse der Bund-Länder-Konferenz am 28.10.2020
Land Hessen
852 views 14 likes 10 dislikes 28 Oct 202034% match


Settings Privacy About Contact Donate