The Loneliness EpidemicYouTube↗  IA↗(long shot)
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Matt D'Avella 4M subscribers United States YouTube↗


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How has the most connected society in history
how has the most connected society in
also become the loneliest?
history also become the loneliest it's
It's easy to forget how far we've come.
easy to forget how far we've come in
In just a matter of years, we've gone from phone calls to text messages to video chat.
just a matter of years we've gone from phone calls to text messages to video
In an instant we can ring up a family member across the world
chat in an instant we can ring up a
and feel more connected with them given the distance then we could have
family member across the world and feel more connected with them given the
at any other point in history.
distance then we could have had any
This was science fiction in the 20th century.
other point in history this was science fiction in the 20th century it's during
It's during that same period of innovation that brought us one-click shopping:
that same period of innovation that brought us one-click shopping anything
anything we could need delivered to our door the same day.
we could need deliver to our door the
And so we bought, and stored, and used, and replaced
same day and so we bought and stored and
a generation living better than Louis the fourteenth,
used and replaced a generation living better than louis xiv yet finding
yet finding ourselves more secluded than ever.
ourselves more secluded than ever why do
Why do people, even after they have their basic needs met with all the tools we have available,
people even after they have their basic needs met with all the tools we have
why are we not only unhappy,
available why are we not only unhappy
but largely depressed?
but largely depressed author and
Author and journalist Johann Hari set out across the world
journalist Johann Hari set out across
to speak with leading experts on depression, anxiety, and loneliness
the world to speak with leading experts on depression anxiety and loneliness to
to discover both how we've gotten to this place and more importantly
discover both how we've gotten to this place and more importantly how do we as
how do we as individuals in a society start to turn the tide?
individuals in a society start to turn
This is my 20-minute interview with Johann about what he learned from that research. All right, so why don't we start out with a little bit of a intro about yourself and about your work.
the tide this is my 20-minute interview with Johann about what he learned from that research all right so why don't we start out with a little bit of a intro
about yourself and about your work I
I really- I write my book "Lost Connections" because there were the- these two mysteries that were really hanging over me for years
really I write my book lost connections because there were the these two mysteries that were really hanging over
Look, I was quite afraid to look into them in some ways
me for years look I was quite afraid to
The first mystery is I'm 40 years old and every year that I've been alive
look into them in some ways the first mystery is I'm 40 years old and every year that I've been alive depression and
Depression and anxiety have increased here in the United States, in Britain, and across the Western world
anxiety have increased here in the United States in Britain and across the
Right and I kept asking myself
Western world right and I kept asking
Why? Why is this happening? Why are so many more of us each year that passes finding it hard to get through the day right and
myself why why is this happening why are so many more of us each year that passes finding it hard to get through the day
I guess I wanted to understand that from because I'm a more personal mystery When I was a teenager
right and I guess I wanted to understand that from because I'm a more personal mystery when I was a teenager remember
Remember going to my doctor and explaining that I had this feeling like a pain was leaking out of me out
going to my doctor and explaining that I had this feeling like a pain was leaking
So I put it at the time
out of me out so I put it at the time
and I felt Very ashamed of it
and I felt very ashamed of it
I felt Confused by it
confused by it I didn't understand why
I didn't understand why it was happening
it was happening and my doctor told me a
And my doctor told me a story that, and now realized were speaking to the leading scientists in the world on this was oversimplified
story that and now realized were speaking to the leading scientists in the world on this was oversimplified
Right. My doctor said we know why people feel like this. It's just cuz of a problem in your brain
right my doctor said we know why people feel like this it's just cuz of a
There's a chemical called serotonin that makes people feel good
problem in your brain there's a chemical called serotonin that makes people feel
Some people are naturally lacking it. You're clearly one of them. All we need to do is give you some drugs
good some people are naturally lacking it you're clearly one of them all we
You're gonna feel better
need to do is give you some drugs you're
so I started taking a chemical anti-depressant called Paxil and I felt significantly better for a few months and
gonna feel better so I started taking a chemical on to depressant called paxil and I felt significantly better for a
Then this feeling of pain came back. So I'm back doctor said wanna get high enough dose. I was gonna hide dose again
few months and then this feeling of pain came back so I'm back doctor said wanna get high enough dose I was gonna hide
I felt better again. The feeling of pain came back and I was really in this cycle of taking higher and higher doses
dose again I felt better again the feeling of pain came back and I was really in this cycle of taking higher and higher doses until for thirteen
until for thirteen years
years I was taking the maximum dose
I was taking the maximum dose you're allowed to take at the end of which I was still really depressed
you're allowed to take at the end of which I was still really depressed and I
And I was surrounded by people who are becoming more and more depressed
was surrounded by people who are
So I just forced myself really to start looking into this. So I ended up going on this big journey for the book
becoming more and more depressed so I just forced myself really to start looking into this so I ended up going on
I travelled over 40,000 miles
this big journey for the book I
I wanted to meet the leading experts in the world about what causes depression and anxiety
travelled over 40,000 miles I wanted to meet the leading experts in the world about what causes depression and anxiety
And what solves them most importantly so I'm at you know
and what solves them most importantly so
Not just leading experts, but just a crazy mixture of people with different perspectives from an Amish village in Indiana
I'm at you know not just leading experts but just a crazy mixture of people with different perspectives from an Amish
Cuz the Amish have very low levels of depression to a city in Brazil that banned
village in Indiana cuz the Amish have very low levels of depression to a city in Brazil that banned advertising to see
Advertising to see if that would make people feel better to a lab in Baltimore than where they were giving people
if that would make people feel better to a lab in Baltimore than where they were
Psychedelics to see if that would help and I learned a huge number of things but the core of what I learned
giving people psychedelics to see if that would help and I learned a huge number of things but the core of what I
Is that there's scientific evidence for nine different causes of depression and anxiety
learned is that there's scientific evidence for nine different causes of
Two of them are in fact biological. My doctor wasn't wrong and
depression and anxiety two of them are in fact biological my doctor wasn't
Your genes can make you more vulnerable to these problems
wrong and your genes can make you more
just like some people find it easier to put on weight than others and
vulnerable to these problems just like some people find it easier to put on
There are real changes in your brain that begin when you become depressed that can make it harder to get out
weight than others and there are real changes in your brain that begin when you become depressed that can make it harder to get out but most of the
but most of the factors that cause depression or anxiety are not in our biology. Most of the factors for which there's scientific evidence are
factors that cause depression or anxiety are not in our biology most of the factors for which there's scientific
Factors in the way we're living and what I learned in the process of writing the book and speaking to so many
evidence are factors in the way we're living and what I learned in the process of writing the book and speaking to so
Scientists is once you understand the causes of depression or anxiety in this more complex way Opens up a much broader range of possible solutions that I saw being pinned
many scientists is once you understand the causes of depression or anxiety in this more complex way opens up a much broader range of possible solutions that
Just all over the world
I saw being pinned
And these are solutions that we need to be explaining to people and offering to them alongside not instead of but as an option alongside
just all over the world and these are solutions that we need to be explaining to people and offering to them alongside not dead of but as an option alongside
Chemical antidepressants why is society at large? Reacting in this way. What do you think are some of the influences on people's well-being?
chemical antidepressants why is society at large reacting in this way what do you think are some of the influences on
That's leading to the higher and higher rates and depression and anxiety
people's well-being that's leading to the higher and higher rates and
I'll give you an example of one of the nine causes that arrived at in lost connections. We are below Lea's society
depression and anxiety I'll give you an example of one of the nine causes that arrived at in lost connections we are
There's ever been there's a study that asks Americans
below Lea's society there's ever been there's a study that asks Americans how
how many close friends do you have you could turn to in a crisis and
many close friends do you have you could turn to in a crisis and when they
When they started doing this years ago
started doing this years ago the most
The most common answer was five today the most common answer not the average but the most common answer is none half of all Americans
common answer was five today the most common answer not the average but the most common answer is none half of all
Asked how many people know you well say Nobody right? I spent a lot of time talking to an amazing man called professor
Americans asked how many people know you well say nobody right I spent a lot of time talking to an amazing man called
John Cacioppo is that it was the leading expert in the world on loneliness. He was at the University of Chicago
professor John Cacioppo is that it was the leading expert in the world on loneliness he was at the University of
And he explained to me
Chicago and he explained to me why are
Why are we alive you and me and everyone watching this? Why do we exist?
we alive you and me and everyone watching this why do we exist one key
One key reason is that our ancestors on the savannah's of Africa were really good at one thing
reason is that our ancestors on the surveillance of Africa were really good
They weren't bigger than the animals they took down. They weren't faster than the animals they took down
at one thing they weren't bigger than the animals they took down they weren't faster than the animals they took down
But they were much better at banding together into groups and cooperating just like bees evolved to live in a hive
but they were much better at banding together into groups and cooperating just like bees evolved to live in a hive
Humans evolved to live in a tribe and if you think about the circumstances where we evolved if you were cut off from the tribe
humans evolved to live in a tribe and if you think about the circumstances where we evolved if you were cut off from the
You were depressed and anxious for really good reasons. You weren't terrible danger you were about to die
tribe you were depressed and anxious for really good reasons you weren't terrible danger you were about to die those are
Those are still the impulses we have we are the first humans ever
still the impulses we have we are the
In the long 2 million year history of our species to try to disband our tribes and is making us feel awful
first humans ever in the long 2 million year history of our species to try to disband our tribes and is making us feel
So a key thing for me was not just to understand these problems. But ok. How do we solve those problems?
awful so a key thing for me was not just to understand these problems but ok how
Right and one of the heroes of my book Lost Connections is an amazing man called. Dr
do we solve those problems right and one of the heroes of mobit lost connections is an amazing man called dr. Sam ever
Sam ever Hampton who pioneered a whole different approach based on this understanding
Hampton who pioneered a whole different approach based on this understanding so
so Sam was a general practitioner in East London poor part of East London where I live for a long time and
Sam was a general practitioner in East London poor part beast London where I
Sam was really uncomfortable because he had loads of patients coming to him with terrible depression and anxiety
live for a long time and Sam was really uncomfortable because he had loads of patients coming to him would terrible
And like me he thinks there's some role for chemical antidepressants
depression and like me he thinks there's some role for chemical antidepressants but he
But he could also see most of the people he was giving them to did become depressed again
could also see most of the people he was giving them to did become depressed
And he could see that they were depressed and anxious for perfectly understandable reasons
again and he could see that they were depressed and anxious for perfectly
Right like to give one of the examples I took about in the book loneliness
understandable reasons right like to give one of the examples I took about in
So he decided to pioneer a different approach one day a woman came to see him called Lisa Cunningham
the book loneliness so he decided to pioneer a different approach one day a woman came to see him called Lisa
He'd been shut away in our home with dreadful depression and anxiety for seven years and Sam said to Lisa. Don't worry
Cunningham he'd been shut away in our home with dreadful depression and anxiety for seven years and Sam said to Lisa don't worry I'll
I'll carry on giving you these drugs. I'm also gonna suggest something else. There was an area behind the doctors the suite of doctors offices
carry on giving you these drugs I'm also gonna suggest something else there was an area behind the doctors the suite of doctors offices there was no
There was no known as dog share alley which gives you sense of what it was like just kind of scrubland
known as dog share alley which gives you sense of what it was like just kind of
Sam said to Lisa what I'd like you to come and do is turn out a few times a week
scrubland Sam said to Lisa what I'd like you to come and do is turn out a few
I'm gonna come to you cuz I've been pretty anxious
times a week I'm gonna come to you cuz
We're gonna meet with a group of other depressed and anxious people. And we're gonna
I've been pretty anxious we're gonna meet with a group of other depressed and anxious people I'm good if I start to do
find something to do together as a group, right the first time the group met Lisa was literally physically sick with anxiety
together as a group right the first time the group met Lisa was literally physically sick with anxiety but the
But the group starts talking they're like, what can we do?
group starts talking they're like what
These are inner-city East London people
can we do these are inner-city East
They don't know anything about gardening they decided they're going to teach themselves gardening right gonna turn dogshit alley into a beautiful garden
London people they don't know anything about gardening they decided they're going to teach themselves gardening right gonna tan [ __ ] alley into a
So they started watching YouTube. They start to read books
beautiful garden so they started watching YouTube they start to read
They start to get their fingers in the soil. They start to learn the rhythms of the seasons
books they start to get their fingers in the soil they start to learn the rhythms
There's a lot of evidence that exposure to the natural world is a really powerful
of the seasons there's a lot of evidence that exposure to the natural world is a
Antidepressant start to do something even more important. They started to form a tribe
really powerful antidepressant start to do something even more important they
they started to form a group they started to care about each other and you know, if
started to form a tribe they started to form a group they started to care about each other and you know if if one person
If one person didn't turn up, they'd go and look for them. They'd see if they were okay
didn't turn up they'd go and look for
They did what human beings do when they're part of tribes. They started to solve each other's problems
them they'd see if they were okay they did what human beings do when they're part of tribes they started to solve each other's problems the way Lisa put
The way Lisa put it to me as the garden began to bloom. We began to bloom
it to me as the garden began to bloom we
There was a study in Norway of a very similar program found. It was more than twice as effective as chemical antidepressants. I
began to bloom there was a study in Norway of a very similar program found it was more than twice as effective as chemical antidepressants I think for an
Think for an obvious reason, right?
obvious reason right it was dealing with
It was dealing with some of the reasons why they felt so bad in the first place and this is something I saw all over
some of the reasons why they felt so bad in the first place and this is something
The world from Sydney to São Paulo to San Francisco the most effective strategies for dealing with depression and anxiety
I saw all over the world from Sydney to Saab Paulo to San Francisco the most effective strategies for dealing with depression and anxiety are
Are the ones that deal with the reasons why we're in such distress in the first place?
the ones that deal with the reasons why we're in such distress in the first
You said that we're living in the loneliest society. There's ever been
place you said that we're living in the loneliest society there's ever been
how Can that possibly be with all of these tools at our fingertips, right we have social media
how can that possibly be with all of these tools at our fingertips right we
We have the ability to connect and interact with anybody in an instant
have social media we have the ability to connect and interact with anybody in an
I can FaceTime my mom in a second. And if she picks up then we can I can see her face to face has social media
instant I can FaceTime my mom in a second and if she picks up then we can I can see her face to face has social
Played some part in the fact that we are lonely
media played some part in the fact that
This is a complex question and with a complex answer
we are lonely this is a complex question and with a complex answer so the glib
So the glib answer is to go, yeah social media did this to us. Is this too simplistic?
answer is to go here social media did this to us is this too simplistic to
To understand this I went to the first-ever internet rehab center in the world. It's in just outside Spokane in Washington State
understand this I went to the first-ever internet rehab center in the world it's in just a size Spokane in Washington
It's called restart, Washington. I remember I've arrived there. It's a clearing in the woods
State it's called restart Washington I remember I've arrived there
I get out. I got out the car and absolutely instinctively
it's a clearing in the woods I get out I got out the car and absolutely
I looked at my phone to check my email and felt really pissed off. I couldn't see it go. There was no reception
instinctively I looked at my phone to check my email and felt really pissed off I couldn't see it go there was no
I was like, oh wait you came to the right place?
reception I was like oh wait you came to
Right and I spent a fair bit of time there and it's totally fascinating
the right place right and I spent a fair bit of time there and it's totally
They get a whole range of people at restart Washington, but they disproportionately get
fascinating they get a whole range of people at restart Washington but they disproportionately get young men who
Young men who become obsessed with these multiplayer role-playing games like World of Warcraft or not at the time that I was there
become obsessed with these multiplayer role-playing games like World of Warcraft or not at the time that I was
but now fortnight right and
there but now fortnight right and I'm
I'm about Dr. Hillary cash the amazing woman who runs this Center
about dr. Hillary cash the amazing woman who runs this Center sent me that you've
Sent me that you've got to ask yourself
got to ask yourself what are these young
What are these young men getting out of these games? Because they're getting something right? I
men getting out of these games good they're getting something right I think
think what they're getting is a
what they're getting is a kind of hollow
Kind of hollow version of the things they used to get from the society
version of the things they used to get
But they no longer get they get a sense of a tribe they get a sense of status and they can gain in status
from the society but they no longer get they get a sense of a tribe they get a sense of status and they can gain in
They get a sense. They're good at something they get a sense. They're moving around
status they get a sense they're good at something they get a sense they're moving around young people barely leave
Young people barely leave their homes. Now. It's incredible the figures for how rarely children play outdoors
their homes now it's incredible the figures for any children play outdoors
but what they're getting is, I started to think that the relationship between say these these games or
but what they're getting is you know I started to think that the relationship between say these these games or
For media and social life is like the relationship between porn and sex, right?
for media and social life is like the relationship between porn and sex right
I'm not against porn don't meet a certain basic edge
I'm not against porn don't meet a
But if your entire sex life consisted of looking at porn you'd be going around pissed off and irritated the whole time
certain basic edge but if your entire sex life consisted of looking at porn you'd be going around pissed off and
Because we didn't evolve to masturbate over screens
irritated the whole time because we didn't evolve to masturbate over screens
We evolved to have sex right that wouldn't meet your deeper needs in the same way
we evolved to have sex right that wouldn't meet your deeper needs in the
I'm not obviously not against the internet would be ridiculous, right?
same way I'm not obviously not against the internet would be ridiculous right
But we didn't evolve to talk through screens, right
but we didn't evolve to talk through
We didn't evolve to look at each other and interact through with our friends through screens
screens right we didn't evolve to look at each other and interact through with
If you and I was speaking even via Skype now
our friends through screens if you and I was speaking even via Skype now I
I wouldn't feel you were seeing me and you wouldn't feel you was the other way around
wouldn't feel you were seeing me and you wouldn't feel you was the other way
In the way that we feel that we are seeing and hearing each other now, right?
around in the way that we feel that we are seeing and hearing each other now
human beings have a need to be seen and
right human beings have a need to be seen and
The leading expert on loneliness in the world professor John Cacioppo said gave me good little rule of thumb. He said If social media is a way station for meeting people offline or staying in touch with them that you'll see offline
did leading games but on loneliness in the world professor John Cacioppo said gave me good little rule of thumb he said if social media is a way station
for meeting people offline or staying in touch with them that you'll see offline
It's a good thing if it's the last stop on the line generally something's gone wrong
it's a good thing if it's the last stop on the line generally something's gone
But he's I think we have to think about as well
wrong but he's I think we have to think about as well the moment in human
the moment in human history when social media arrives
history when social media arrives right
Right a lot of the causes of depression and anxiety that I write about in my book loss connections
a lot of the causes of depression and anxiety that I write about in my book
Were already supercharged by then by the late 90s the early 2000s loneliness have gone up
loss connections were already supercharged by then by the late 90s the early 2000s loneliness have gone up
Values have gone up a whole range of things
values have gone up a whole range of
And what happens is the internet arrives and it looks a lot like the things we've lost
things and what happens is the internet arrives and it looks a lot like the
You've lost friends. Here's a load of Facebook friends. You've lost status
things we've lost you've lost friends here's a load of Facebook friends you've lost status make some status
Make some status updates, right but it's not the thing. We've lost. It's a kind of
updates right but it's not the thing we've lost it's a kind of parody of the
Parody of the thing we've lost and what we need to do in very practical ways is restore
thing we've lost and what we need to do in very practical ways is restore the
The thing we've lost it seems like today. We have a lot of distractions
thing we've lost it seems like today we have a lot of distractions that could
That could potentially pull us away from that connection
potentially pull us away from that connection it seems like a lot of people
It seems like a lot of people are driven through consumerism and materialism
are driven through consumerism and
and Many of us are safer and have more than ever have before the size of homes has increased steadily since the
materialism and many of us are safer and have more than ever have before the size of homes has increased steadily since the 1930s and
1930s and 40s is there any correlation between
40s is there any correlation between
material wealth and
material wealth and happiness one of the
Happiness, one of the things I found most challenging in the research for the book because I could see how much it played out in
things I found most challenging in the research for the book because I could
my own life
see how much it played out in my own
Was some research by an amazing man called Professor Tim Casa
life was some research by an amazing man called Professor Tim Casa so everyone
So everyone knows junk food has taken over our diets and made us physically sick right as I can tell from my chins
knows junk food has taken over our diets and made us physically sick right as I
I'm not immune to this myself
can tell from my chins I'm not immune to
But it's equally strong evidence that a kind of junk of values have taken over our minds and made us mentally sick Professor Kass showed. So for thousands of years
this myself but it's equally strong evidence that a kind of junk of values have taken over our minds and made us mentally sick professor Kass I showed it
so the thousands of years philosophers
Philosophers have said, you know if you think a life is about money and status and shoving off. You're gonna feel like shit, right?
have said you know if you think a life is about money and status and shoving off you're gonna feel like [ __ ] right
It's not an exact quote from Confucius. But that is the gist of what he said, right?
it's not an exact quote from Confucius but that is the gist of what he said
But no one scientifically investigated this until professor Kassar
right but no one scientifically investigated this until professor Kassar and he
And he showed a few I think really important things
showed a few I think really important
Firstly he showed the more you think life is about money and status and shoving off
things firstly he showed the more you think life is about money and status and
The more likely you are to become depressed and anxious by a really quite significant amount
shoving off the more likely you are to become depressed and anxious by a really
I think this is because we're going a little bit beyond professor kasih here, but I think this is because
quite significant amount I think this is because we're going a little bit beyond professor kasih here but I think this is because everyone knows they have natural
Everyone knows they have natural physical needs right? You need food. You need water. You need shelter. You need clean air
physical needs right you need food you need water you need shelter you need
If I took those things away from you. You'll been real trouble real fast, and there is equally strong evidence that all human beings have natural psychological means
clean air [ __ ] those things away from you you've been real trouble real fast but is equally strong evidence that all human beings have natural psychological
You need to feel you belong you need to feel your life has meaning and purpose. You need to feel that people
means you need to feel you belong you need to feel your life has meaning and purpose you need to feel that people see
See you and value you beautifully. You've got a future that makes sense and our culture is good at lots of things
you and value you beautifully you've got a future that makes sense and our
I'm glad to be alive today
culture is good at lots of things I'm
but we've been getting less and less good and meeting these deep underlying psychological needs if you think
glad to be alive today but we've been getting less and less good and meeting these deep underlying psychological
partly because there's many factors going on but partly because if you think life is about money and and
needs if you think partly because there's many factors going on but partly because if you think life is about money
Displaying that money that's gonna divert you from the things you actually do need to have a a meaningful and satisfying life
and and displaying that money that's gonna divert you from the things you actually do need to have a a meaningful
But professor Cass also said something else. So you showed the more you follow these junk values
and satisfying life but professor Cass also said something else so you showed the more you follow these junk bunnies
The more likely while to become depressed and anxious
more likely while to become depressed
He also showed as a society as a culture. We have become much more driven by these junk bodies
and anxious he also showed as a society as a culture we have become much more driven by these junk bodies it's a
It's a cliche to say to your viewers
cliche to say to viewers you won't lie
You won't lie on your deathbed and think about what the likes you've got on Instagram and all the shoes you bought right?
on your deathbed and think about what the likes you've got on Instagram and all the shoes you bought right you'll
You'll think about moments of love and meaning and connection in your lives. But as Professor Casa puts it we live in a machine
think about moments of love and meaning and connection in your lives but as Professor Casa puts it we live in a
That's designed to get us to neglect
machine that's designed to get us to
What is important about life right more eighteen-month-old children know what the McDonald's M means the know their own last name?
neglect what is important about life right more eighteen-month-old children know what the McDonald's M means the
we're immersed in a machinery that tells us how to do this professor Gossard had really interesting research about how we
know their own last name we're immersed in a machinery that tells us how to do this professor Gossard had really interesting research about how we how we
How we undo some of that and some of it was really simple
undo some of that and some of it was
he got a group of people to me once every couple of weeks for four months and just talk about
really simple he got a group of people to me once every couple of weeks for four months and just talk about firstly
firstly consumer objects, they thought they had to have
consumer objects they thought they had
things like Nike sneakers
to have things like Nike sneakers
Once they talked out loud
once they talked out loud how do you
how do you think your life will be different when you've got them didn't take long for people to start seeing maybe this is
think your life will be different when you've got them didn't take long for people to start seeing maybe this is
Bullshit that's been implanted in my head by advertising but then there were important bit was they've got people to talk about well
[ __ ] that's been implanted in my head by advertising but then there were important bit was they've got people to
What are moments
talk about well what a moment that's not
That's not a moment that's gonna make you feel satisfied
a moment this can make you feel
What are moment's you have actually felt your life was meaningful satisfying, but we'll talk about different things to some people
satisfied what a moment's you have actually felt your life was meaningful satisfying but we'll talk about
It was playing music some people it was swimming some people it was writing whatever it was and and they started saying well
different things to some people it was playing music some people it was swimming some people it was writing whatever it was and and they started
How could you build more of that into your life seeking more of that and doing more of that and less of?
saying well how could you build more of that into your life seeking more of that and doing more of that and less of
seeking this kind of junk value stuff and
seeking this kind of junk value stuff
Just that process of meeting every couple of weeks and checking in with each other and explaining how they try to do it
and just that process of meeting every couple of weeks and checking in with each other and explaining how they try
Led to a measurable. They did a good scientific study at this
to do it led to a measurable they did a good scientific study at this
Immeasurable shift in people's values to become less materialistic, which we know relates to less depression and anxiety. Now of course is the case that
immeasurable shift in people's values to become less materialistic which we know relates to less depression and anxiety now of course is the case that and a guy
And a guy professor richard Laird has done research on this if you don't have a baseline of material goods
professor richard Laird has done research on this if you don't have a baseline of material goods right if you
right If you are in poverty that makes you then you are going to be unhappy
are in poverty that makes you then you
But once you've actually reached a fairly low level of income that you're not actually wanting the basic things
are going to be unhappy but once you've actually reached a fairly low level of income that you're not actually wanting
additional money makes, you know happier and actually
the basic things additional money makes you know happier and actually constantly
Constantly seeking it leads to a corruption of values that makes significantly more unhappy
seeking it leads to a corruption of values that makes
We talked a little bit before we sat down here about Marie Kondo and minimalism and this movement of people rejecting
significantly more unhappy we talked a little bit before we sat down here about Marie Kondo and minimalism and this movement of people rejecting consumerism
consumerism and materialism
and materialism to live with less stuff
to live with less stuff to purchase less things to
to purchase less things to focus less on
Focus less on status in their lives Do you think
status in their lives do you think I'm
I'm curious Just what your your thoughts on this this movement towards less is and if you think in some way it will help people
curious just what your your thoughts on this this movement towards less is and if you think in some way it will help
Figure out their values again and reset these junk values that we've created for ourselves
people figure out their values again and reset these junk values that we've
I haven't looked into any huge amount of detail, but
created for ourselves I haven't looked into any huge amount of detail but we
We live in a hurricane of messages
live in a hurricane of messages telling
Telling us The answer to our pain and distress lies in shopping, right? This is a really interesting study that was done in
us the answer to our pain and distress lies in shopping right this is a really interesting study that was done in 1978
1978 really simple
really simple you get a bunch of five
You get a bunch of five year olds you
year olds you divide them into two
Divide them into two groups first group is shown two advertisements
groups first group is shown two
For whatever the equivalent to like Dora the Explorer or the Teletubbies was in 1978. I forget what it was
advertisements for whatever the equivalent to like Dora the Explorer or the Teletubbies was in 1978 Africa where
Second group is shown no advertisements then all the kids are told
he was second group is shown no advertisements then all the kids are
Hey kids got a choice now
told hey kids got a choice now you can
You can either play with a nice boy who doesn't have the toy in the embarrassment or you can play with a nasty boy
either play with a nice boy who doesn't have the toy in the embarrassment or you
Who's got the toy? The kids had seen just two advertisements
can play with a nasty boy who's got the toy the kids had seen just two advertisements overwhelmingly chose the
overwhelmingly chose the nasty boy who had the toy and
nasty boy who had the toy and the kids
The kids who haven't seen their advertisements overwhelmingly chose the nice boy who didn't have the toy right? So just two ads just two
who haven't seen their basements overwhelmingly chose the nice boy who didn't have the time right so just two
We're enough to prime those kids to choose an inanimate lump of plastic over the possibility of fun and connection, right?
ads just two we're enough to prime those kids to choose an inanimate lump of plastic over the possibility of fun and connection right every single person
Every single person watching your video has seen more than two ads today right more than two advertising messages. So we're living in this
watching your video has seen more than two ads today right more than two advertising messages so we're living in
hurricane of messages
this hurricane of messages bombarding us
Bombarding us with a very particular before
with a very petite before advertising
Advertising sells any specific product. It sells the idea that the solution lies in
sells any specific product it sells the idea that the solution lies in
Purchasing things right? I mean imagine
purchasing things right
Advertising is the ultimate frenemy right? It's saying babe I love you. I think you're great. But if you didn't stink
I mean imagine advertising is the ultimate frenemy right it's saying baby but I love you I think you're great
I mean, I'm just saying if you weren't so hairy, I'm just saying, right. It's the ultimate yeah, it's
only you didn't stink I mean I'm just saying if anyone so hairy just saying right it's the ultimate yeah it's it
It worked. The premise of is it has to make you dissatisfied right?
worked the premise of is it has to make
I mean in the advertised you look at what advertising people say internally to each other
you dissatisfied right I mean in the advertised you look at what advertising people say internally to each other
they're very candid about this they call it invented once right because actually
they're very candid about this they call it invented once right because actually
The things that we need are relatively limited
the things that we need are relatively
The whole machinery has to be built around making us feel inadequate and then making us by the solution right? So I think
limited the whole machinery has to be built around making us feel inadequate and then making us by the solution right so I think movements that say you know
Movements that say, you know, I'm just gonna purge this shit right back
I'm just gonna purge this [ __ ] right
That is not the answer right? Of course. There are nice things. We all like to have nice things
back that is not the answer right of course there are nice things we all like
I have some nice things but the idea that this ceaseless
to have nice things I have some nice things but the idea that this ceaseless
Treadmill are buying and displaying useless bullshit
treadmill are buying and displaying useless [ __ ] the idea that we might
The idea that we might want to step off that treadmill and go
want to step off that treadmill and go
Maybe I've got a limited amount of time in which to be alive. Maybe I'll spend my time on things that are more meaningful
maybe I've got a limited amount of time in which to be alive maybe I'll spend my time on things that are more meaningful
seems to me to be a really positive step
seems to me to be a really positive step
Thanks for watching this video
thanks for watching this video if you
If you want to get the full 40 minute interview with Johan you can get it at patreon.com slash Matt de Bella
want to get the full 40 minute interview with Johan you can get it at patreon.com slash Matt de Bella thanks for watching
Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time
and we'll see you next time
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