Patch Rundown 5.6 League of Legends English English

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Saludos invocadores and welcome to Patch Rundown 5.6. If you haven't yet, read the patch notes

they're probably here, they're most likely here, but I'm going to guess here. I have

with me my guests, lead of Live Gameplay Brian Feeney also known as FeralPony and Aiden Zirene

Moon, the lead Zirene for the LCS analyst desk. Thank you guys. And my favorite Zirene

too. And your favorite Zirene. Thank you. I don't know if he's my favorite Zirene, but

we'll see by the end of this episode, thank you guys for showing up. Thank you for having

us. So I'm going to go to you Zirene immediately, because Brian Feeney doesn't know anything

about the jungle. Wow. Last patch we released Cinderhulk. Yeah! I love that item. OK, apparently

you do love that item. Well so, there was a lot of criticism, especially last time from

Jatt right? He's like, junglers are in a really bad spot, there's not many junglers that I

can play right? 5.5 had a number of notable changes, how is the jungle for you feeling

right now? Right now it feels really great, it feels like I can play a lot of different

Champions there, like I can go play an AP Nidalee or Fiddlesticks, I can go play a tank

jungler and have a lot of success on them, maybe a little too much sometimes, but also

you can still play the Rek'Sai, you can still play the Jarvan and the Lee Sin and you have

tradeoffs right? Like you have early game versus the late game of the tank, so I think

it's hitting that diversity, I just think that tank junglers are a little stronger than

they should be in comparison to the others now. Yeah, I mean there's a few especially

that were sort of above the rest of the pack before Cinderhulk, which I think did a really

great job of shoring up some of there mid game clear problems, some of the sort of mid

game weakness, like they've always had early game weaknesses that's intentional and probably

a really healthy spot for them to be in. Right. We had suspicions that some of these characters

like Sion and Sejuani were gonna to do very well in the new system, but its hard to predict

exactly how well and so we wanted to let things shake out a little before making any kind

of jumps on some of these characters, and we sort of... we've seen the patch, those

two characters in specific are a little bit too strong. We have small nerfs for both of

those guys coming in, but we want to give a little bit more time to see how the jungle

shakes out right? People are going to be trying new things, even now people are still trying

new junglers, they're still innovating, they're still doing adjustments. Zak just got played

in the LCS. Exactly, right? It's awesome. I thought you were like, oh no. No that's

awesome. He was like, really cool to see for example right? Like, that's one of those characters

that we saw without necessarily even doing a lot more like, powerful buffs to, like we

did a small tweak there and people are still adjusting and innovating and trying new things,

which is really, really cool to see. And that being said, we still have a few additional

jungle changes coming up this patch. Primarily targeting stuff like late game experience

of junglers who are sort of, you know, if they are doing well in the early or mid game,

we've seen pretty much universally they sort of fall behind in levels, fall behind in power

in the late game and want to make sure that's addressed regardless of each individual characters

current state. Right, so what leads us to making changes that are just huge. Like, what

is really leading us to use the hammer when we need to use something else? Sure, so a

couple things kind of come in to play here, each story and each kind of case is pretty

unique, I think in Azir's case that dude was just the most complicated Champion like in

kind of existence for a number of cases, like just both like mechanically, both in how the

character functions, there's really no one else similar. How to play is super intense

to use. And so any amount of actual change that like... we play test the crap out of

a Champion internally, but that's nothing compared to 30 minutes on the live servers

right? And so Champions like that I think it's actually very easy to sort of over or

under shoot, and so you also see this with new Champions sometimes as well where like,

we have generally like the top tier players who are spending, you know, weeks and weeks

if not months working on this specific Champion, like Bard was an example of this right? Where

the character is just so mechanically complex, like so unique and like just, he's so different.

Yeah. And then on release, like you know, everyone's like, what do I do with this Champion?

So then are we OK with changing characters over a number of patches, because as much

as the balance seems to be criticized for like, you guys go too hard on characters or

you nerf too many things at once right? There's also been a criticism in characters, I think

it was most recently, one is like Lucian where it was like, this character is strong and

it feels like you just keep picking at them over patches, do we prefer that approach,

is that approach OK? Yes, we should, I definitely think that should be our approach to it, because

when you hit things too hard it goes down so drastically that people get so frustrated

with those Champions, whereas small power creep types of things are, in my opinion,

healthier. Like you look at Kennen, he's been buffed kind of slowly, and then he's in a

good spot. It also happened a little bit with Lissandra where she just kept getting small

buffs, quality of life changes and it's like, whoa Lissandra, out of nowhere, everybody's

playing it. I think that's better than huge buffs at once or huge nerfs at once, because

it's too much sometimes. Yeah so I want to get your feeling on the stuff that is happening

in the jungle right? We have, if I am correct, Elise, Evelynn, Nocturne and Rammus and some

XP stuff. They feel a little light, but they feel like they might be in the right direction.

I don't know, how do you feel? I feel like having the tiny changes is the way to go with

it and just kind of just push it up little by little so I don't know if they will be

enough. I feel like Elise might need a little more loving, I feel like... I feel like Nocturne,

he's actually gotten some buffs over time, like the E tether fury, you move faster towards

the target. Right. And now this, so a lot of people are going to pick up Nocturne again

and be like, oh yeah I haven't played him since he's gotten that buff to his E and he's

going to feel a lot better, he's going to have more early game pressure, so overall

I think that these are good changes since they are tiny buffs to just push those characters

in the right direction, and then just have people explore with it, because people are

going to play Evelynn again and be like, 3 seconds to go re-stealth and then come back

again and reopen on people is pretty big right? Right. That's just a play pattern thing and

then when people pick the Champion up again this might make them a little more alluring

and then when they do they're like, wow, this Champions stronger than I thought, because

it's about perception too. Right. It's not just about... I mean, perception is huge in

this case, but like also with some of these characters like, you know, Evelynn especially

you know, used to get the crap kicked out of her in the jungle right before that and we did the

damage reduction buffs that actually helped out Champions like her, almost disproportionately

to some of the other characters and so you're seeing a bunch of these ecosystem changes

on top of small incremental Champion changes, I think can have massive impact, but and I

think in general that is a pretty good direction to go, just like smaller stuff and you know,

kind of see how things shake out, but that's not always the best play. Like Cinderhulk

for example was not a small change. That was pretty massive and I think if we had gone

with the approach of like, let's just do small incremental changes to every tanky or kind

of tanky jungle dude who wants health in any kind of way it would have taken us forever

to get there and would have caused a lot more disruption, a lot more kind of like, probably

negative ramifications than we wanted to, whereas if we just go, hey here's Cinderhulk,

like be rampaging, fire-spewing monsters right? That's super awesome and we get the kind of

changes we want to see and we diversify things a lot, we see people trying out new stuff,

I think it's a really healthy and good direction. Yeah, I think that it's great to see like,

the late game tank junglers who are bad early and then you have people who are like, I am

going to play Lee Sin still and Jarvan, because they have their place and their like, early

game pressure, not as great as a tank jungler late game, but you transition into that and

then you still have things like AP Nidalee, which I think is a little powerful, but I

still think it's a good thing to have in the game at the moment so that people can be like,

there is an AP jungler to play, we need more things like this, and to be like, it's OK

to have that poke pattern, we want more of that. Yeah, that was going to be my next question

now that you bring her up is, you say we are taking a wait and see approach right? We are

trying to do things that, you know, kind of little by little here right? And yet it feels

like we're almost ignoring something like Nidalee, which many of our players agree,

that character is in a state, she's very visible and shes very powerful and we're not really

doing anything to her. So, to be totally blunt, Nidalee is still on the radar as a character

that we are looking at. It seemed we knew how much of an impact Cinderhulk was gonna

have, we didn't know quite exactly how much but we knew it was going to be big. And so

it was a little bit... felt a little bit irresponsible to be like trying to target nerf specific

Champions in the jungle when we're also boosting a ton of other Champions in the jungle at

the same time. Right, so are we, moving forward you know if you look at 5.5 and 5.6, are we

just going to buff forever? Is that... are we about that life or what's going on? I mean,

I think you want to use both always right? Like there is a bar of where things are at,

somethings are above that bar, somethings are below that bar and you want to be able

to use both tools at your disposal. I think sometimes we definitely err too heavy in one

direction or the other and I think we can be doing both right? And that's actually good,

but I think ultimately, regardless of whether we're buffing or nerfing the most important

thing in my mind is that we're being targeted and we're pushing the game always in a better

direction, whether that's through buffing a character or even nerfing a character. So

if we're nerfing a character or if we're buffing a character, even though there might be a

risk of maybe we move too far, maybe we don't go far enough, as long as the end result is

a place we want the game to be at then we're fine to make those changes. I mean, we patch

all the time right? So that's one of those things where like if we're a little bit off

on sort of... you know, on a balance number or like they're a little too powerful or a

little bit too weak, we can adjust that in the following patch, the following two patches,

like we adjust the game very rapidly, however if we are not pushing the game always in a

better direction, then we're just... we're not really making progress. OK, awesome guys.

Thank you for coming over and talking about the changes with me. That is it for 5.6. For

myself, FeralPony, Zirene and everybody here at the crew, we'll see you next time hopefully

with the real Zirene.

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